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You're Not Fucked Up, You're Just Bored

19:12 / 26.05.02

and thus a well known columnist dismisses the emotional (un) well being of millions. however, it did make me think - we in the west, most of whom do not have to worry about where our next meal is coming from, who are not suffering civil war, have time to fret (for want of a better word) over the fucked upness of our childhoods or whatever. i'm not really suggesting we all have nothing better to do, but it did occur to me that whenever i hear about countries where people suffer disease, war, natural disasters, there's never any mention of emotional distress, apart from the immediate and obvious horrors that have been experienced/witnessed.

does the columnist have a point? or is it just lack of reporting? i'm putting this in conversation as i'm not entirely sure of my own thoughts on this, and how head shoppy the subject actually is.

19:29 / 26.05.02

On the one hand, it's true. It's the "You think you've got it bad" syndrome, and I try to keep it in mind all the time. So what if my store is tanking, at least I had the opportunity, education and money to start it up. So what if I've had a rough day and my son's giving me a headache. At least I have a son, and my rough day was picky customers, not suicide bombers. (Knocks on wood!).

But it also points out the fact that generally physical distress is given a higher priority than emotional distress, which I'm not entirely sure I agree with. I suppose physical circumstances are easier to report on as you can see them without having to be in them. Emotional distress in a "hot spot" is assumed, rather than confirmed.

On the other hand, just because someone's life is not constantly in danger because of an accident of birth does not mean their problems are worth dimissing.

That make any sense?

Zoom.

Our Lady of The Two Towers

19:33 / 26.05.02

My prejudiced reation is to ask suspiciously, 'which columnist?' Not a certain ex-NME journo, formally married to Tony Parsons who lives in Brighton with a voice like a distressed muppet?

I think there is an element of truth to the 'having time to mope' theory, though never in need of medication I have found that keeping busy DOES help. But I doubt that this is true for everyone.

19:37 / 26.05.02

Yeah, I'd guess that it's all relative. Some people might be happy just to have peace whereas those who've always had peace may tend to want something more to make them feel happy. Doesn't particularly mean their twats, doesn't affect the worthiness of they're emotions.

19:48 / 26.05.02

Yeah, that's exactly it. Just because someone doesn't live in war zone doesn't mean their emotions are any less valid than someone who does. The stresses in our lives may not be life threatening, but they are stresses nonetheless. Labelling these feelings of anxiety and hopelessness and "bored" is irresponsible in the extreme. Regardless of their cause, such feelings need to be dealt with by an open and honest mind. Not a cynical one.

Zoom.

20:11 / 26.05.02

Yeah, I don't mind the occasional mopiness & irritability I go through. It sure beats the alternative...

20:12 / 26.05.02

hmm. prize goes to lada for working out who it was. burchill was talking about an extreme rather than the norm, i think. i would certainly agree that mental distress *is* seen as being less important than intense physical pain. having suffered both i would say they're actually amazingly similar.

anyway, burchill did get me thinking - because presumably horrible shit like sexual abuse etc of children goes on universally, but in some countries doesn't get addressed because day to day physical survival is such a priority..... therefore causing even more problems. it's just that a) i think i should've thought of this before and b) i've never read anything that discusses this and wonder if i've just missed it or it gets ignored.

as i said, hmmmm.

20:37 / 26.05.02

My hackles go up when I hear someone say, "You don't know what real suffering is."

Quick hypothetical situation: two women have been abuse: one physically and sexually, one only verbally. Years or even decades later, they both find themselves unable to shake the tendency of working themselves up into a rage over their past, at least once a day.

Is the latter woman over-reacting? Does the former have the right to say, "Stop whining! He never hit you; they're just words!" What's to stop us from applying that same logic to the first woman and saying, "Stop whining! All he did was smack you around and stick his penis in you! At least he didn't cut off your limbs with a rusty saw!" We aren't competing to see who's the biggest victim; a victim's a victim.

I think suffering is totally subjective; if you're still hurting from the time the whole class made fun of you were eight, there's probably a goddamn reason why, and nobody has the right to tell you that you need to get over it. That said, it must be admitted that there are a few people...okay, a lot...who fake suffering in order to get pity they don't deserve. The trouble is telling them apart from those genuinely in need of support.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

21:08 / 26.05.02

sfd: Most if not all of Julie Burchill's piece-of-shit articles are written with the intent of a) pissing off somebone else in the incestuous little sandpit she dwells in, or b) getting her lots and lots of luvverly scrummy attention. In short, she is a troll with a column. Iggity plonk.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

21:50 / 26.05.02

The argument that "someone's got it worse so quit whingeing" has never cut much ice with me- otherwise, you could say it was perfectly acceptable for coppers to shoot an innocent man on the grounds that it happens more elsewhere. Or that any curtailment of civil liberties is acceptable because it's not as bad as Nazi Germany. Which is quite patently bollocks.

06:07 / 27.05.02

this thread has rather twisted away from what i was trying to say. burchill didn't say anything about those suffering emotional distress not knowing how good their lives are. she was actually saying that abortion doesn't have to be a big deal. *i* was pondering the fact that we in the west *do* have time to consider emotional damage done. some *do* take this to an extreme, but much of it is genuine. what i really meant was that people from all over the planet must presumably suffer the same emotional damage as we in the west do, but perhaps do not get a chance to address it. but i admit to having been clumsy about the point i have been attempting to make.

i also understand entirely the temptation to think the worst of burchill - although i did agree with the gist of a lot of what she was saying. i think i've rather misrepresented her opinion on this one.

The Natural Way

07:43 / 27.05.02

sfd: "hmm. prize goes to lada for working out who it was."

Wasn't exactly hard though, was it?

In theory I agree 100% w/ shorty, but in practice, IRL, I finds meself getting a little bit more impatient. This is possibly because I do hang out w/ people who whine about depression all the time and, well, to be honest, it's completely habitual/circumstantial and very, very boring. I know it's all relative etc., but I just can't stand the entertainment value some people seem to derive from their "pain". I think there's something to be said for occassionally turning round and just saying "No! Fuck off! Shut up! Yr bored....etc" A lot of people could probably use a kick up the arse (including myself...all the time) if only to get them moving, physically moving towards something more productive than going on and on about how shit everything is and how fucked up their past has made them. It might be more healthy sometimes to take the "existential approach", to define oneself by one's actions now, as opposed to some nasty little fucked up thing that happened 10 yrs ago or last month. Again, I'm not denying the massive, total effects of our various life traumas, but I'm suspicious of engaging in interior monologues that may serve only to entrench us deeper within our individual emotional quagmires.

I say all this, but later on I'll be moaning like beeyatch.

08:42 / 27.05.02

the burchill article

what i really meant was that people from all over the planet must presumably suffer the same emotional damage as we in the west do, but perhaps do not get a chance to address it. but i admit to having been clumsy about the point i have been attempting to make.

Probably not in the same sense as we might "address" it in the west, though there are other ways... but just because people in physically harder circumstances don't have the option to whine publicly, that doesn't mean (a) that they don't go on about it anyway, just not to therapists and (b) that they're not harmed by it. The "stiff upper lip" may be practically useful at times, but it's not an ideal way to live for the individual.

There's also a great degree of underreporting - I'm sure if you sent psychiatrists to interview earthquake survivors, say, they would find a large number who by our standards were severely fucked up. (I remember reading about therapists working with former child soldiers in Africa, who were trying to use techniques that were used with the most damaged children in the west, but there was no real equivalent and they were learning a lot on the job.)

08:44 / 27.05.02

When I read Burchill's article, the first thing that came to my mind was my mother, who's had three abortions, one of them a miscarriage.

But the other two were for economical reasons, cause she and my dad were unemployed at the time - since they lived (still live) in Brasil, they didn't get any kind of economical assistance (no one does) from the state to create children, therefore the decision. Abortion is illegal in that country, and my mum had to go thru the hands of unsympathetic doctors working in what we call "backyard clinics". She felt loads of physical pain, but the way she was treated there was the worse, like " well, you've decided to abort, now cope with the pain! And no, you can't have water now!"

To think that thousands of teenage girls and women suffer the same (abortion is still illegal) every year makes me want to scream.

08:51 / 27.05.02

have read through the article again i would have to disagree with burchill on one point at least - stuff that happens to us *does* stay with us for life. but it's how we (have the opportunity to) deal with it that's surely the issue.

Our Lady of The Two Towers

13:08 / 28.05.02

I've always found Burchill to be a strong member of the Church of the 'It's true for me so it's the same for everyone else', (And anyone that disagrees with me is stupid and probably crap in bed too) sect.

No star here laces

13:56 / 28.05.02

I think the main point here is that humans have a great capacity to get on with what needs to be done. If you're continually struggling just to exist then you don't think about your dad raping you when you were 3 because you don't have time. You can't afford to be depressed - being depressed lowers your chances of survival.

so yes, physical suffering is more significant because you can't deal with emotional suffering unless you are free from the physical concerns of continuing to exist. And yes, dealing with emotional distress is to a certain extent a luxury that we in the west are better able to afford. But that doesn't make it a morally lax thing to do. Creating art is a luxury that requires freedom from physical suffering but no-one is suggesting that that is a self-indulgent waste of time...

14:19 / 28.05.02

They aren't? I thought a lot of people greatly enjoy suggesting that art is a self-indulgent waste of time. And there are many who would entirely disagree with the idea that 'creating art is a luxury which requires freedom from physical suffering'... both because the impulse to create art may be both annoying and painful (a la Aphex Twin, who said that he is just driven to make music, when he'd really rather not), and because many artists live in a goodly amount of physical discomfort, and/or use their physical pain as a focal point for their art...

But that is really beside the point.

15:26 / 28.05.02

I think thats oversimplifying what people go through, lyra. most people who are dealing with traumatic experiences arent sitting there thinking "that was bad and now Im scarred", but rather dealing with the effects such experiences have on our behaviors and perceptions. and how the two are interrelated. and how much of it isnt something that is so easy to pinpoint - I have trouble with x and y because z happened to me.

No star here laces

11:35 / 29.05.02

In equation form.

z has happened to a and b. a lives in Canada, b lives in Afghanistan.

Both a and b say "I have (emotional) trouble with x and y because of z".

But b also says "but I have no option not to do x and y so I'll just get on with it."

n'est-ce pas?

Less searchable M0rd4nt

18:55 / 30.05.02

If you're continually struggling just to exist then you don't think about your dad raping you when you were 3 because you don't have time. You can't afford to be depressed - being depressed lowers your chances of survival.

One reason that you don't see people with depressive illnesses in warzones or disaster areas is this:

In an environment where you can commit suicide just by not trying really fucking hard to stay alive, the depressives are not limping through life propped up on SSRIs and Valium, and they have not miraculously recovered.

They're fucking dead.

18:58 / 30.05.02

bored sounds like a variant of fucked up to me.

(yes I skimmed most of this thread so apologies if I repeated what somebody else said.)

Less searchable M0rd4nt

19:01 / 30.05.02

Anyway JB has a swimming pool, so she can shut right up about poverty.

19:56 / 22.01.03

I'm not sure about the "they just wind up dead" argument. I think a lot of boredom & depression have an intimate relationship to leisure time, to that feeling of just wasting the hours... and those involved in struggles & strife don't have the leisure. They must make their choices quickly.

20:40 / 22.01.03

And if I were J Burchill I'd feel depressed! I agree with you 100% Mordant! Good on ya!!

07:32 / 23.01.03

I was in a book store the other day and I noticed Julie Burchill's autobiography on the shelf. Do you know what it's called? I Knew I Was Right. !!??!! I didn't know whether to laugh or cry. I think I sneezed.

16:49 / 23.01.03

I find myself reminded of some dialogue which I think is in Kyle Baker’s ‘Why I Hate Saturn’, which I’ll paraphrase here cos they don’t let me store my comics at work :

“You sure do complain a lot for someone without any real problems in their life.”
“Hey ! I’ve got problems !”
“You say that like it was something to be proud of.”