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Israelis vs Palestinians: Who are the good guys?

 
 
Lurid Archive
09:56 / 23.05.02
I'd like to talk about the Middle East conflict in a way that goes beyond the latest killing.

In particular, I'm interested in hearing about your views. I think that we could find out a lot from eachother, but I'm very aware of the passions that this can stir up. I'm going to try very hard to stay calm and polite at all times. To start off, what about a few questions.

The history. Is the formation of the state of Israel a tale of terrorists who used force and intimidation to displace an arab population? Or is it about the desperate struggle for survival in response to the holocaust and arab aggression?

What is your perspective on the conflict? Is Israel a democratic nation whose existence is threatened by anti-semitic terrorists and bordering arab nations? Or are the Palestinians a people who have been under harsh military occupation in contravention of the Geneva convention and International law?

More specifically, what about the settlers? Are they plucky Israelis who refuse to be intimidated? Or are they fundamentalists that constitute an invading force? Are your views affected by personal relationships?

Can you justify the actions of Palestinian suicide bombers? Is there any situation in which these kinds of actions would be justified?

How do you view the media in the UK/Europe? And in the US? Are they biased? What stories would you like to see debunked or explained? For example, was the settlement offered to Arafat by Barak a sure sign of Palestinian intransigence? Or was it a hollow offer cynically designed to make Arafat look bad in the media?

A related question would be how the US are viewed in this conflict. Honest broker and Israeli ally? Are the two in conflict?

Finally, where do you see the conflict going in the future? Will Israel have to move further right in order to meet the threat of the suicide bombers? Is an explusion of all Palestinians the only realistic solution? Conversely, is the insistence of a return to 1967 borders, as per UN resolutions, the only just outcome?

What do you think should be done by each side?
 
 
higuita
13:41 / 23.05.02
Once upon a time, I thought that Israel was 'a good thing' without qualification. I look at this in retrospect as a reaction to the amount of holocaust material we were exposed to at school. A little sentimental, but...
then I saw the situation of the Palestinians. Call me old fashioned, but I still have problems with assaulting a refugee camp with bulldozers. So my resultant thinking is the usual liberal wishy-washy leftiness which tries to be fair to both sides.

For most of your questions, I'd say that both sides probably have points for. For every suicide bombing, there's a bulldozer. For every action, there's an overreaction. Your terrorist is my freedom fighter, your defenders are my oppressors - reverse them and apply as you will.
I'd like to be able to say I am unbiased, but I do have a leaning of support for the Palestinian cause. Perhaps that's down to my inbred european anti-semitism, but I - rather sweetly, I think - would rather consider it as sympathy for the underdog. If I were to be placed in a refugee camp in England, I think I'd be entitled to be mightily hacked-off and I hope I'd have the courage to fight whoever was responsible with whatever weapons came to hand.
[Normally, I'm quite fond of Gandhi's peaceful protest tactics, but in this case, I've gone a bit ultimate fighting championship.]

Do I have any personal relation to the question?
My grandparents were pretty anti-semitic, which I think led my mother a reactionary viewpoint which was that, after the holocaust, Jewish people couldn't be in the wrong. I know it looks weird down on paper (as it were) but I think that was the feeling of a lot of people. Personally, I'm very much of the opinion that Jews can be as big a bunch of bastards as christians, muslims and everybody else.
[An interesting feature of my bias, looking back over the last sentence, is that I'll give Judaism the honour of capitalisation, consider it momentarily for Islam and outright reject any such thing for Christianity. I'll be as reactionary as everyone else, then.]

The media is a tricky one - I tend to watch the news on the beeb and read the guardian, so I have a warm, cosy [and no doubt misplaced] expectation of reasonably balanced news. When I read that there is a bias in favour of Palestine, I'm quite surprised. I'm aware of the allegations of anti-semitism, but I also have a reasonably strong feeling that anyone with those sorts of ideas does tend towards not being exactly pro-Islam/Arab either.

In short, [too late] I don't know what either side should do. I'd like Israel to move back to the 67 borders. I'd like the suicide bombings to stop. I have a feeling that neither will occur.

The main problem as I see it now, is one of world politics. The US is under a lot of pressure to cease support for Israel. There are currently two reasons for the US to keep relations going in the middle east - one being oil and the other being the local support needed to continue the 'fight against global terrorism'. One can only speculate on what would happen, should it come to pass that one or both of these becomes more important than support for Israel. [The US is just the most obvious example in this case, apologies to those who feel this is more bashing from the europeans].

The depressing thought is that it is in a lot of people's best interests that the situation should be allowed to continue as it is.

***
One thing that would be helpful is if someone could give a potted history of how Israel came into being. I'm a bit rusty on that, and I have a feeling that a fair amount of the problems stem from the point of conception. As it were.

My longest ever post. If you have been, bless you.
 
 
Lurid Archive
15:02 / 23.05.02
A history is a tricky business, since the disagreements on emphasis are quite severe. The BBC History of the Middle East Conflict and The Guardian Guide provide a brief summary of the main events. Some would say that their attempt at neutrality is a distortion in itself.

More detailed histories are given at The Gates to Jewish Heritage and an alternative version of the conflict by The Jews for Justice in the Middle East.

Broader resources regarding the conflict, but including histories, can be found at ZNet's MidEast Watch (the Massive research guide is, well...massive.) and also The Israeli Defence Force Official Site.

Whew! That is an attempt at pointing to resources by supporters of both sides. If you think there is some bias, feel free to redress it.
 
  
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