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true dove

 
 
autopilot disengaged
09:39 / 08.10.01
...yeah - so i've just spent 7hours or something ridiculous kneeling on my fucking floor making a peacenik resource site.

it's called truedove, and you can find it here.

now - it's patchy. it's got problems. it needs more links and i know i've missed plenty out and -

look. just take a look. tell me what you think. when i get some feedback, i'm going to invite people to email the addy to everyone in their addybook (only if you like/agree with it, obviously). i can and will credit anyone who helps. i haven't linked to barbelith 'cause i thought it couild draw in a invasion force of morons.

just...y'know. feed me back. whatever.

it was just something i felt i had to do. hm. the idea was to hijack blogger for peace - or something. i dunno. i'm only part-functioning here.

please, if you're going to be negative, put a dose of constructivity in there too, yeah? i'm too tired to dick around or defend myself.

yes.

and i want it ready to roll within a couple of days. urgency is paramount - and 'cause of the way i've set it up - it's simple to update.

yes?

yes.

[ 08-10-2001: Message edited by: autopilot disengaged ]
 
 
Dee Vapr
09:54 / 08.10.01
autopilot, I'm not sure about how blogspot functions, but blogger certainly gives you the ability to have a team supplying posts to a singular blog (ala metafilter, the Barbelith collective), I don't know if you're aware of this, or if it is of any use to you. I hope so.

Oh.. and by the way. Well done. Get yrself some kip. You deserve it.
 
 
Ellis
09:54 / 08.10.01
Very nice.

 
 
Naked Flame
09:54 / 08.10.01
Good work, auto =) nice collation of all the stuff that's been flying around here and more besides!
 
 
01
09:54 / 08.10.01
From the site.

ZNet's '5 arguments against war':
1. Guilt hasn't yet been proven.

Admittedly Blair's 70 points were pretty weak. However, the Taliban itself was willing to turn Bin Laden over to Pakistan for trial. If he was clean as a whistle, would extremely militant Islamic fundamentalists be willing to do this?

2. War would violate International Law.
Like this has mattered in the past. The Gulf War had the sanction of the UN. Who benefitted from that? Who called the shots on that? Does the UN have some sort of real authority in these matters anyway?

3. War would be unlikely to eliminate those responsible for the September 11 attacks.
How do you know that?

4. Huge numbers of innocent people will die. Guess what? They're already being killed daily by the Taliban. Public executions are sport. Women are not even considered human by their standards. By not doing any thing we are allowing Middle Ages to exist in the 21st Century. I say fuck that.

5. War will reduce the security of U.S. citizens.
Regrettably, I think we've seen that it's already pretty questionable.

[ 08-10-2001: Message edited by: zerone ]
 
 
Seth
09:54 / 08.10.01
Autopilot: I was gutted I didn't get to meet you in London on Saturday. I think your posts in this forum have been inspirational.

I'll be e-mailing your site to my colleagues when I get to work tomorrow.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
09:54 / 08.10.01
Thanks, autopilot, that's off to a great start.
 
 
yawn - thing's buddy
09:54 / 08.10.01
quote:Originally posted by zerone:
From the site.

ZNet's '5 arguments against war':
1. Guilt hasn't yet been proven.

Admittedly Blair's 70 points were pretty weak. However, the Taliban itself was willing to turn Bin Laden over to Pakistan for trial. If he was clean as a whistle, would extremely militant Islamic fundamentalists be willing to do this?



I don't really understand your point. Basically, the way I read that decision by the taliban is this:

they would offer the bin up for trial in Pakistan because its highly unlikely they would find him guilty of anything we suspect him of doing.
 
 
Naked Flame
10:42 / 08.10.01
Zerone,

In response to 2- that's the old 'two wrongs make a right' argument. The further we progress in a world where sovereign nations deem themselves the highest authority, the more they will oppose and compete with each other. The US has a history of using the UN when it suits it and at other times totally sidelining it. And it doesn't pay its bills.

International law is currently a partially effective, but very fragile thing: however, creating a firm standard of conduct for nations offers a way out of this burgeoning cycle of violence.

In response to 3- all the intel that's been released about the MO of the hijackers suggests that they were 'sleepers'- that they 'westernised' themselves, used training facilities in the US, the UK, Germany etc. The training camps in Afghanistan, to judge from what little footage there is, are boot camps/brainwashing centres for the local Taleban enforcers (many of whom appear to be conscripts.)

4- I agree that we can't stand by and let the Taleban do their thing. Strangely, that's just what the West has done for the last four or five years. Our oil companies were even working on going into business with them. So I'm abivalent about this one. I think that we should act. But I'm pretty sure that the better solution would be to go in and take the guns away, root out the landmines and give the country back to the people.

5-so making it more questionable is a good thing how? I saw a quote from some Pentagon type who said that airstrikes made the possibility of further acts of terrorism '100% likely'. This current action is legitimising violence. Next time a bomb goes off in the US- or quite possibly the UK- there will be no period of diplomacy and restraint, will there? Just a tit-for-tat strike and further rhetoric.

peace out!
 
 
Bill Posters
11:54 / 08.10.01
Nice one dude! (And yeah, sorry I didn't get to see ya again at the last meet...)
 
 
Ierne
13:31 / 08.10.01
Good work, autopilot. It's bloody long, so it will take me a while to look through everything, but...better too long than not enough information.
Thanks
 
 
autopilot disengaged
17:32 / 09.10.01
quote:we are allowing Middle Ages to exist in the 21st Century. I say fuck that.

Afghanistan is living in the Middle Ages - because it's spent half a century being bombed, invaded and generally exploited. and now it's dead broke and starving.

the Taleban is a terrible, repressive regime. but try and understand they were born out of despair. funny how countries that closely equate pretty closely with hell on earth throw up people obsessed with heaven - that a people might dream of 'infinite justice' - 'cause they sure as hell aren't going to get any on earth...

quote:Huge numbers of innocent people will die. Guess what? They're already being killed daily by the Taliban.

again, i agree. but the Taleban could not in their bloodthirstiest dreams kill the amount of people that will, in all probabilty die of starvation and disease over the coming months. and that's not even going into the past US support for the Taleban and bin Laden when it suited their interests (but NOT in the Afghan peoples').

anyhow: i'm just posting to say i'll be spending tonite reworking 'true dove'. this will involve reworking the intro to edge the UN to the side (though continuing to say all the right things, they seem chronically unable to take up any kind of stance on the bombing) in favour of a direct interpretation of Article 51 - a new section on 'smart weapons' etc etc.

seriously: if anyone has any ideas, corrections and maybe especially criticisms please post them up.
 
 
Naked Flame
20:09 / 09.10.01
Any way you can allow discussion of points, eg the Znet 5 points against war thing? probably not via a BB but perhaps a kind of guestbook idea?
 
 
Naked Flame
20:11 / 09.10.01
also, separating entries would make it a lot easier to read. I'm still digging through it... it's all good stuff tho.

Next thing is to get the link out there I guess.
 
 
autopilot disengaged
20:41 / 09.10.01
hey flame - yeah - i've just finished indexing it. have also written a much, much stronger intro - though blogger won't presently let me post it - something to do with their server.
 
 
autopilot disengaged
20:43 / 09.10.01
...and now blogger itself is refusing to load. conspiracytheoryGO!
 
 
mondo a-go-go
21:46 / 09.10.01
quote:Originally posted by Naked Flame:
Any way you can allow discussion of points, eg the Znet 5 points against war thing? probably not via a BB but perhaps a kind of guestbook idea?


not on blogger, but you can do that at livejournal.... of course, everyone who wants to leave a msg has to sign up to livejournal, which is a pain.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
10:29 / 10.10.01
Can't you comment on livejournal posts just as a 'guest'? You certainly could until recently...
 
 
autopilot disengaged
14:48 / 10.10.01
nah - it came to me today - a better way of hijacking blogger.

we make a network of sites - linked to one another - all following the same basic design template. diff people take resposibility for diff hijacked blogs, some of the others use 'metafilter' (whatever that is) so we can all post to them...

more in a minute. i crave the beeeaan....
 
 
deja_vroom
17:28 / 10.10.01
autopilot, you DA MAN!!.

I linked TRUE DOVE from my blog, and I'll try to translate as much as I can into Portuguese. God knows we could use the information down here.
Yesterday at night, a news reporter here was making this really smart comment, on how perhaps the only solution to end terrorism would be the one PROPOSED BY GEORGE ORWELL in 1984!!

Shit.

[ 10-10-2001: Message edited by: Jade Emperor ]

[ 10-10-2001: Message edited by: Jade Emperor ]
 
 
Mr Tricks
09:25 / 11.10.01
dude... you rock...

I don't, sorry I haven't been 'round, lot's of shifting going at this point...

Carry on
 
 
autopilot disengaged
09:34 / 11.10.01
this topic moves tothe NEXXT LEVEL over at the 'help me' thread.
 
 
autopilot disengaged
15:15 / 13.10.01
as of now, there's an updated version up and running. hopefully by monday morning i'll be asking anyone interested to get with the mailing-outing...
 
 
autopilot disengaged
15:17 / 13.10.01
oh: and thanks to everyone who's linked to the page: i L.O.V.E. you.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
07:49 / 14.10.01
Auto- that's fucking ace. Sorry I haven't been able to give you any input thus far, but I've been away for a week and am now working until Thursday morning; hopefully then I'll be able to come up with some links (and phone bill be damned). Will pass on the URL to a bunch of folks at various sites tho'. Not sure what else (other than info) I'll be able to help with, 'cos I don't really know this computer thing too well. If there's anything else I can do to help that can be explained V.E.R.Y. B.A.S.I.C.A.L.L.Y., then let me know.
 
  
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