BARBELITH underground
 

Subcultural engagement for the 21st Century...
Barbelith is a new kind of community (find out more)...
You can login or register.


Why does Clones suck while X-Men is good?

 
 
YNH
06:12 / 17.05.02
Both fail to live up to expectations, both have shit-poor dialogue most of the time, and both are pieced together from fragments of plot.

Do we just have higher expectations for film? Surely y'all don't expect more from Lucas?

Just wondering...
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
06:45 / 17.05.02
They both sucked. But X-Men had Patrick Stewart in it.
 
 
YNH
07:00 / 17.05.02
Silly me, I meant New X Men!

does it make more sense now? Many of the same people slagging off Clones are cheering a poorly written comic book, see, and I'm having trouble parsing the why's and wherefore's.
 
 
the Fool
07:17 / 17.05.02
cheering a poorly written comic book

New X-men is bright and fun. And a better read than a lot of other comics. And when it has Frank its beautiful to behold.

I'm happy.

I'll probably enjoy Clones too when I see it...

Silly me.
 
 
Mystery Gypt
07:21 / 17.05.02
to answer "Why does clones suck" you have to come up with an answer to "Why did i go see clones"
 
 
YNH
07:30 / 17.05.02
You're confusing we with I... It's all about the "Attack of the Clones" thread in TV/Film and the monthly "New X-Men #1xx" threads in Comics.

Why do /(Barbelith)/ cheer NXM and jeer Clones?

See?

Bless the Fool for understanding, again.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
07:48 / 17.05.02
I like both.
 
 
w1rebaby
08:07 / 17.05.02
I haven't seen either.

I'd imagine it's prejudice and the puncturing of rose-tinted childhood star wars memories. Or maybe one sucks and the other doesn't.
 
 
Whisky Priestess
08:09 / 17.05.02
Went to see Clones last night (friend's birthday treat, therefore not my choice, although I doubt I would have been able to avoid it for long) and despite having been told that it was less shit than Phantom Menace, I was bored by Hour One and catatonice by Hour Two and a Half.
Lucas sure does love his CGI, but alas at the expense of character and dialogue
 
 
w1rebaby
08:25 / 17.05.02
look, the important question is are there good lightsabre fights? and what is the ratio of fights to slush?

Based on Ep 1, I see an upward trend in the quality of lightsabring over the first three.
 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
09:28 / 17.05.02
New X-Men is by Grant Morrison, who has yet to annoy Barbelith by making a billion out of merchandising. Clones is by Lucas, who made films many of us were shaped by as kids, and is now making money by cashing in on those films with prequels of uncertain quality.

I enjoyed Clones. But it still had a lot wrong with it. I don't enjoy New X Men, but it still has a lot right with it.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
10:17 / 17.05.02
I found out how to make a plasma sabre. And explode apples. I don't need no steeenkin' Star Wars.
 
 
The Apple-Picker
12:12 / 17.05.02
Please be kind to the apples.
 
 
Trijhaos
12:18 / 17.05.02
I haven't seen Clones yet, but the reason people may think it sucks is because they're not seeing it through the same eyes they saw the original three.

As for NXM, did you read X-men before Grant jumped aboard? For the past 10 years or so its been pretty bad. Grant makes X-men fun again.
 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
12:32 / 17.05.02
Trijhaos - of course, there is going to be a bit of a shift in perception from the old three to the new. But the one thing you could say without fear of contradition about the old three was that you were never confused about the issues. There was always a clear force of evil taking a direct hand in events. Jeopardy was clear, simple, and immediate, pressure was on. Operatic, yes?

But in the new films, there's an unholy amount of detective work. This isn't opera, it's somewhere between pantomime and mystery. That said, Clones drops into opera far more, and with far greater conviction, than Menace ever did.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
13:07 / 17.05.02
I don't think New X-Men is poorly written even in the slightest. It's fun, it keeps me guessing, Grant makes me like and care about the characters, and best of all, it's always full of memorable dialogue. Most of the New X-Men strikes me as Invisibles for the masses, and I appreciate that.

The new Star Wars films are of shaky quality, they are lacking in humanity, and have all but abandoned the concept of memorable dialogue. Attack of the Clones is fun and often pretty thrilling, but it's nowhere in the same league as New X-Men. There is no contest between this week's NXM 126 Cassandra finale and AOTC.
 
 
Yay Paul
13:20 / 17.05.02
I haven't yet seen Clones, but i shall get the low down from people going to see it tonight...

But yes i agree with Mr Fool new X-Men is a fun read, i like it, and love all those crap X's built up over the years are now gone !
 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
13:23 / 17.05.02
[shrug]

I find NXM unutterably boring. I have no idea why. Everyone else seems to like it.
 
 
Solitaire Rose as Tom Servo
14:22 / 17.05.02
I liked Attack of the Clones. It was a fun, frothy summer action pic for kids with lots of neat stuff and Jar Jart Binks causing the end of the Republic.

I can see why other people might not, but I'm a big time geek and didn't even hate Phantom Menace like I guess I am supposed to.

Sorry.
 
 
Sax
14:31 / 17.05.02
I have to agree with Nick, here. I read NXM every month and it just kind of washes over me. It doesn't stir any emotion or give me much food for thought like Morrison's other work. Presumably that's because he's working withing limited parameters - ie a mainstream comic book - or maybe I can't get my head round superhero books any more. I appreciate a lot of the ideas GM is working with, and the dialogue's okay, and the art when Quitely does it is nice, but it seems to be a case of the individual parts are greater than the whole, for me at least.
 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
16:46 / 17.05.02
Thank God there's someone else. I honestly thought I was the only one. Now, Bendis' "Powers" on the other hand, is stunning.
 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
17:06 / 17.05.02
Reviews here: I find the list of quotes on this page far more interesting than any of the individual reviews.
 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
17:11 / 17.05.02
And in what way could this be said to be true?

The film echoes the structure of franchise peak "The Empire Strikes Back"

BBC review.

Don't answer, you'd have to include spoilers.
 
 
w1rebaby
17:14 / 17.05.02
You realise that now, I'm going to have to go and see it to determine whether it's worth going to see it. That's not fair.

I'll pick up a copy of New X-Men too, though, just to be balanced.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
17:40 / 17.05.02
If you are going to sample New X-Men, get the E is For Extinction trade paperback - NXM is meant to be a serial, so jumping in at the end of a 12 issue storyline might not be that smart. The first storyline is the best one, anyway.
 
 
w1rebaby
17:49 / 17.05.02
but buying that will surely cost me as much as going to see star wars? Dammit, it's expensive being open-minded and fair.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
17:57 / 17.05.02
Yes, it's roughly the same price to buy E Is For Extinction, but I promise you that it's far better, and you get to keep it and read it as many times as you like, or sell it to someone as a used book.
 
 
w1rebaby
18:03 / 17.05.02
I'm going to have to sell all my comics and graphic novels and shit soon anyway, unless I want to cart them all over to the States. Right now, I buy things on weight.

Okay, next time I'm in the area I'll pop into Forbidden Planet.
 
 
Captain Zoom
20:35 / 17.05.02
I really enjoy both. Maybe not equally, but comparing them is problematic at best.

Zoom.
 
 
w1rebaby
20:41 / 17.05.02
Compare them! If this isn't about problematic comparions, what is it about?
 
 
The Natural Way
12:42 / 20.05.02
Ummm, but it's not exactly a fact that NXM is writing of "dubious quality". It's perfect for what it is, and, sadly, Star Wars isn't.
 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
12:48 / 20.05.02
Check the reviews link I posted for the new Star Wars. There are people who think it's perfect for what it is. I'm not one of them, but...

And I think the writing for NXM is of dubious quality. Ergo, there is at least one person in that camp, too. So both are under siege, and both have fans.

Perfect.
 
 
The Natural Way
13:11 / 20.05.02
Yes, fair enough, but lumping them both together...it just seems a bit arbitrary. Doesn't it?
 
 
YNH
16:21 / 20.05.02
Well, I experienced both on the same day. It didn't seem arbitrary to me.
 
  
Add Your Reply