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tony blair's dangerous words

 
 
autopilot disengaged
19:42 / 03.10.01
quote:What happened on 11 September was without parallel in the bloody history of terrorism.

all depends on yr vantage point - or, more specifically - yr alignment. if we're talking in statistical, numerical terms, the twin holocausts of Hiroshima and Nagasaki just can't be beat. 140,000 would be a rough figure for Hiroshima alone.

of course, Hiroshima was during wartime. though you try explaining that to the 120,000 of the victims estimated to be civilians.

more recently, and during peactime, one might mention the impressively accurate cruise missile attack on the al-Shifa pharmaceutical factory in Sudan. though no one was killed outright, the real tragedy emerged as it became clear al-Shifa was an entirely legitimate producer of desperately-needed medication for a poor country. many thousands have since died, unable to afford the more expensive imported versions of the drugs.

but neither could this attack be described as one of terrorism because, as Noam Chomsky writes...

'I understand the term "terrorism" exactly in the sense defined in official us documents: "the calculated use of violence or threat of violence to attain goals that are political, religious, or ideological in nature. This is done through intimidation, coercion, or instilling fear."

In accord with this -- entirely appropriate -- definition, the recent attack on the us is certainly an act of terrorism, in fact, a horrifying terrorist crime. There is scarcely any disagreement about this throughout the world, nor should there be.

But alongside the literal meaning of the term, as just quoted from us official documents, there is also a propagandistic usage, which unfortunately is the standard one: the term "terrorism" is used to refer to terrorist acts committed by enemies against us or our allies. Political scientist Michael Stohl is quite correct when he writes that "we must recognize that by convention -- and it must be emphasized only by convention -- great power use and the threat of the use of force is normally described as coercive diplomacy and not as a form of terrorism," though it commonly involves "the threat and often the use of violence for what would be described as terroristic purposes were it not great powers who were pursuing the very same tactic."'


quote:Be in no doubt: Bin Laden and his people organised this atrocity. The Taliban aid and abet him. He will not desist from further acts of terror. They will not stop helping him.

much to question here. for starters, the leaders have reneged on their promise to share the evidence with the international community proper - preferring instead to confer with only the Nato countries. so we are being asked to believe this statement without any actual intelligence to support it.

the Taliban have made at least two widely-reported diplomatic attempts to avert strikes. these have been rebuffed. any thoughts on their future policy is therefore, self-serving speculation.

quote:Ninety per cent of the heroin on British streets originates in Afghanistan.

apparently, non-aligned drugs experts are lending credence to this claim - BUT - what is not mentioned is that this is almost all from the bumper harvest crop of 1999. in 2000, the Taliban forbade opium growing - "UN observers reported that by earlier this year the crop had been practically wiped out." (The Guardian)

i want to keep this in bitesize chunks, but there's more to follow...
 
 
Ronald Thomas Clontle
20:47 / 03.10.01
I was just in a class in which the consensus agreement was "wow. we all wish Tony Blair was OUR president!"

to which I just looked at them all, puzzled.
 
 
autopilot disengaged
20:52 / 03.10.01
quote:Listen to the calls of those passengers on the planes. Think of the children on them, told they were going to die.

the latter being an emotive image that, so far as i can see, is a cynical fiction. piecing together the messages from the planes, passengers had no idea what the eventual outcome was going to be. so - this image, i would suggest, is employed here as a crude piece of emotional blackmail.

quote:We will take action at every level, national and international, in the UN, in G8, in the EU, in Nato, in every regional grouping in the world, to strike at international terrorism wherever it exists.

For the first time, the UN security council has imposed mandatory obligations on all UN members to cut off terrorist financing and end safe havens for terrorists.

Those that finance terror, those who launder their money, those that cover their tracks are every bit as guilty as the fanatic who commits the final act.


an interesting u-turn for the west's terror sponsors, and one of many promises much to be applauded in the speech - IF subsequent actions bear it out. however, one imagines the US and UK will not include their roles as the premier suppliers of arms under 'supporting terrorism' - even when doing so to dictatorships and police states. more likely, selling guns to blood-soaked regimes to use on their own people will still come under 'trade'.

next is one of the most interesting threads of the entire speech - wherein Blair discusses globalisation.

quote:The critics will say: but how can the world be a community? Nations act in their own self-interest. Of course they do. But what is the lesson of the financial markets, climate change, international terrorism, nuclear proliferation or world trade? It is that our self-interest and our mutual interests are today inextricably woven together.

This is the politics of globalisation.


this is a very clever way of reclaiming what has become a dirty word - and in repeatedly stressing the 'interconnectedness' of the 'international community', Blair is again, briefly convincing. and never more so than when he even goes so far to say that I realise why people protest against globalisation. We watch aspects of it with trepidation. We feel powerless, as if we were now pushed to and fro by forces far beyond our control...The demonstrators are right to say there's injustice, poverty, environmental degradation.

but then he blows it by espousing something so obviously untrue that it is difficult how he can say it with a straight face:

quote:The issue is not how to stop globalisation.

The issue is how we use the power of community to combine it with justice. If globalisation works only for the benefit of the few, then it will fail and will deserve to fail.

But if we follow the principles that have served us so well at home - that power, wealth and opportunity must be in the hands of the many, not the few - if we make that our guiding light for the global economy, then it will be a force for good and an international movement that we should take pride in leading.


a pretty ridiculous piety when globalisation has been the engine for accelerating injustice and inequality everywhere it has managed to get its tentacles...

for example:

Of the top 100 economic entities in the world, 51 are corporations, only 49 are nations. General Motors or General Electric are much larger than Saudi Arabia or Poland, and so on.

Furthermore, studies by both UNCTAD and the United Nation University show that inequalities in most countries are inexorably rising, whether in China, Russia, Latin America or the West; 85 percent of the world's population now lives in countries where inequalities are growing, not diminishing. (Susan George)


[ 03-10-2001: Message edited by: autopilot disengaged ]
 
 
No star here laces
08:16 / 04.10.01
Actually Autopilot, I have to take issue with what you've said.

There is a basic question of realism here. In many ways I personally see a roughly anarchist society of small communities as being pretty much ideal. But I don't expect to see it happen in my lifetime, and I certainly don't expect to see elected leaders of western industrial powers proposing it. Thank fuck - it would be hopelessly undemocratic if they did. I don't even expect to see them muzzling big business. But I would like to think that I will see them starting to make progress towards something better.

So I am incredibly cheered to hear my national leader say things like:
quote:
The starving, the wretched, the dispossessed, the ignorant, they are our cause too.

Or:
quote:
The condition of Africa is a scar on the conscience of the entire Western world


To have the leader of a great economic power admit that he has a debt and a duty to the losers of globalisation and colonialism is a massive step forward. Let us not forget that Blair is talking about cancelling debt, ending corrupt regimes, stopping needless war, helping starving children and halting climate change. If you don't agree that these are good things then you are a worthless human being.

It may well be that this is all empty rhetoric and that nothing will come of it. But I personally believe that Blair really wants to do this, and is going to try an actually make the world a better place. Any activist worth hir salt who actually believes in social justice and a better world should support him in these endeavours, because to be honest this is far more likely to help the poor and dispossessed than poncing around in a harpooned whale costume outside the WTO conference.
 
 
Solaris
08:44 / 04.10.01
'One man's freedom fighter is another's terrorist'...

But look at this way, Pilot. The problem with trying to recognise acts of terrorism as acts of war, or vice versa, is that it devalues the state of 'peace'. If there was no cognitive difference between the two, the world would be permanently locked in a vengeful cycle of bomb attack, reprisal, bomb attack, reprisal...

And face it, the Taliban, Bin Laden, etc etc are evil fuckers, and deserve to be destroyed.
 
 
yawn - thing's buddy
08:53 / 04.10.01
everybody is a star
 
 
Solaris
08:53 / 04.10.01
I learned everything I know from the Primal Scream.
 
 
mondo a-go-go
10:42 / 04.10.01
quote:more recently, and during peactime, one might mention the impressively accurate cruise missile attack on the al-Shifa pharmaceutical factory in Sudan.

[from the john pilger exhibition at the barbican] and the anglo-american bombing campaign of iraq continues. the embargo imposed by the uk and usa on iraq kills 6000 children under the age of 5 per month. [the exhibition has finished now, btw]
 
 
Kit-Cat Club
11:01 / 04.10.01
Autopilot: about the opium grown in Afghanistan. It's true that the Taliban banned farmers growing it (with the help of a substantial handout from the U.S.), and that there was no crop... but the bumper crop of 1999 is, as you say, still circulating, and is controlled by the Taliban. Moreover, I heard on the radio that the Taliban are about to allow farmers to begin growing the crop again. So the situation isn't quite as clear-cur as it might appear, I think.
 
 
rizla mission
12:44 / 04.10.01
quote:Originally posted by Solaris:
I learned everything I know from the Primal Scream.


Figures.


I don't have anything very clever to say in regards to this thread beyond;
GOD ALMIGHTY, I wish Blair would stop talking stop talking so much shit!
 
 
autopilot disengaged
15:30 / 04.10.01
ok: for starters, the reason i claimed tony blair's speech was dangerous was precisely BECAUSE he says all the right things.

well-meaning platitudes are less than easy. and worse, they can easily be used as a smokescreen. so, forgive me if i reserve my applause for when he actually does one, other or any of these noble acts. my refusing to join the general standing ovation isn't going to hinder him any.

and i NEVER brought anarchism into it. using specific criticism of a specific speech to jump to conclusions about my political ideals? that's no fair, tyrone (and also exactly what the media does, nine times out of ten). most anti-globalisation protestors are NOT anarchists. but it's a good scare word, so...

as i've said before, at this point i consider myself to be nothing more or less than counter-reactionary. the reason i highlighted what i see to be the definite half-truths in blair's speech is not to score political points but because THIS IS HOW HE IS TAKING US TO WAR.

this is not a time to be POLITE.

i am not advocating revolution here, nor disobedience for the sake of it. i am trying to point out that our country is about to go to war AGAINST INTERNATIONAL LAW.

i am NOT advocating abstractions. i believe that, before ANY action takes place it must be ratified by the UN security council.

solaris: all i want is all attacks made against innocents - whoever the perpetrator, whoever the victim, to be treated in the same manner under INTERNATIONAL LAW.

and macavity: i can't say for sure, but i'd be very surprised if the Taliban could exercise any real control over its crop once it's left its shores. this is not a wealthy, well-connected government.

yes: if tony blair was to do all of the wonderful things he pledged to do in his speech - fantastic. but look at his track record. NewLabour2001: brought to you by McDonalds.

they're going to have to prove it to me every step of the way.
 
 
Ronald Thomas Clontle
19:08 / 04.10.01
quote:Originally posted by Rizla Year Zero:


GOD ALMIGHTY, I wish Blair would stop talking stop talking so much shit!


To be fair, at least your head of state sounds at least REASONABLY intelligent when talking shit.

He does come off like he's been studying tapes of Bill Clinton in his downtime, or as though he's lobbying to make England the 51st state...
 
 
Enamon
09:35 / 05.10.01
quote:Originally posted by Flux = Rad:
He does come off like he's been studying tapes of Bill Clinton in his downtime


So what you're basically saying is that within a few months Tony Blair'll be saying things like "I did not have sexual relations with that woman, Ms. Lewinsky." ?

 
 
No star here laces
11:21 / 05.10.01
Autopilot: I wasn't meaning to call you an anarchist, I only meant to demonstrate that I'm not a right-winger.

Dunno, I'm feeling a bit more cautious about the whole thing now - Polly Toynbee wrote a really good article about the danger or "liberal imperialism" in the Guardian the other day.

But I do still feel that it is important for the west to take a more internationalist perspective as this is the way to limit the negative effects of globalisation.

The only way for the third world to pull itself out of the hole it's in is for the west to effectively give up some money in order to help. Which, however you look at it, is what is involved in increasing international involvement.

I also think that admitting some responsibility and duty to the oppressed people of the world is a huge qualitative leap in western politics. Our trajectory has been, with respect to less developed countries, to go from: Kill Them to Convert Them to Exploit Them to Leave Them Be and now, hopefully, to Help Them Out Of the Shit We Got Them Into.

Yes, absolutely, he has to deliver, but one can give cautious approval to the sentiment. It is all too easy to just bash the government for everything they do, without giving proper attention to what may actually be a positive step. Like children and donkeys they need both the carrot and the stick and it is not enough simply to criticise all the time.

"Contravention of international law"? Well it's difficult to say, isn't it? They haven't actually done anything yet. Certainly most of the rhetoric I've been hearing lately says that no military action will be taken against the people of Afghanistan. And, as we all know, just because something is a law, doesn't mean it is right. We clearly need a better international judicial and law enforcement policy.

War is certainly deplorable, but on the other hand it is simply inconceivable to let someone get away with an atrocity on this scale. Saying that the US has done worse in its time is probably true, but is in no way a valid argument for not punishing Bin Laden. He must be caught and he must be dealt with - quite possibly by imprisonment in the Playboy mansion. If you've got a suggestion as to how he can be apprehended without military action then I'd love to hear it.

[ 05-10-2001: Message edited by: Tyrone Mushylaces ]
 
 
autopilot disengaged
23:58 / 05.10.01
tyrone: i think we're basically in agreement. for my part, i have to admit, my intitial fears of a US gut reaction - a free-for-all firestorm - have thankfully proved unfounded so far. bush + blair have played this one well - no doubt about it (though i'd probably say the initial suspension of aid was a pretty thoughtless act).

the proposed humanitarian aid for the people sounds good, and today blair revealed the evidence against bin laden. no complaints there. but, like i said, there's a part of me that is almost suspicious of how reasonable they're being - that this period of consolidation is doing enough to soothe the critics, to gently persuade them.

it all comes down to whether you trust our leaders or not. generallly i don't. generally i think they've been pretty untrustworthy and what's more compromised and corrupted by their big business ties.

still: 911 does mark a massive shift - and i think it is possible that the first world's foreign policy may change because it has to - because they no longer have immunity from the results of their actions.

check out my 'lo-tech terror' thread for more on this.
 
 
Ganesh
00:02 / 06.10.01
[conspiracy] It's almost as if Blair choreographed Thatcher's reality-free 'Muslim leaders aren't grovelling enough' outburst to make him look moderate... [/conspiracy]
 
 
Cherry Bomb
01:58 / 06.10.01
quote:Originally posted by Flux = Rad:
I was just in a class in which the consensus agreement was "wow. we all wish Tony Blair was OUR president!"

to which I just looked at them all, puzzled.



Well, it would be nice to have a leader who sounded, eloquent, informed, AND knew how to pronounce the words in his speeches....
 
 
Ganesh
01:58 / 06.10.01
Shame he can't do anything about those... hammy... pauses.
 
  
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