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Other Beings/Forces and Questions of Authority

 
 
Bill Posters
13:36 / 11.05.02
Not so long ago in a galaxy not so far away, I was calling a quarter in a fairly standardly unstandard paganish-magickal ritual. I ask the spirits to make themselves present, if it was their will, and afterwards I asked them to head off, if that was their will, otherwise they were welcome to stay so long as the house wasn't burned down or anything horrid (it was after all South/Fire I was dealing with). All of which seemed perfectly reasonable to me.

During a post-ritual discussion however, my unwillingness to command the spirits was criticised, and one mage present went to far as to call me "a magickal example of political correctness gone mad". It's the first time I've been called that in a magickal context. I mean, it was pretty funny, but at the same time, it got me thinking.

It lead me to wonder about how we relate to Other Things, be they Elements, Spirits, Gods, Angels, Demons, Big Blobules of Mysterious Energies, whatever ... what are the politics of our magickal relations? Should we yell at them, scream and bully them like they are scum? "Oh spirits of the east, get your asses over here already!" Or do we beg and whimper at them like we are the cosmic sub and they the etherial dom, or at least make sure that our will is in line with theirs and that we're not putting them to too much trouble? Or should we attempt a more mutually respecting and equilateral interaction, a sort of magickal multiculturalism where strength in our unity and celebration of our diversity is the order of the day? Or does it depend on what we're dealing with, should we be nice to Angels, tough on demons, and not worry too much about extra-dimensional alien critters 'cos they're far beyond human constructs such as politics anyway?

So... Other Beings... how do you relate to yours?
 
 
Trijhaos
13:46 / 11.05.02
With respect. Always with respect. You know, these are beings that probably have the ability to shoot fire out of their asses, I can't do that, so I respect them.

I'm not going to get down on my knees and beg, "Please, Please help me, oh mighty one", that shows weakness. But, neither am I going to go all dictator on them, "Get your asses over here and lets do this thing". I want any dealings I have with other beings to be one of mutual respect. I respect them and their abilities, they respect me and mine, and we all go home happy.
 
 
Papess
15:33 / 11.05.02
I am in total agreement with Trijhaos. Respect! Respect! Respect!

I would add that it is important to respect yourself too. If you really do not want the Spirit/Force to linger, I think it is fine to say so. If you are cool with them hanging out then, hey, why banish them?

I tend to treat all beings that enter my home as houseguests. If they are disruptive, they MUST leave. If they are happy to enjoy my company and I theirs, they can stay and have some tea and biscuits.

~May
 
 
Shortfatdyke
15:36 / 11.05.02
i like your method, bill. respect, as distinctly different from 'whimpering'. i want to be assertive when i use magick but never disrespectful. and yes, that's how i ideally approach all aspects of my life.
 
 
Rev. Wright
16:54 / 11.05.02
I find that other beings etc, manifest through our 'being' or 'existing', thus I treat them as I would like myself to be treated.
When it comes to spiritual politics I find that it is a case of 'equals', for our monkey lives are integral to the cosmic flow. We should not stand above our station, but also not undermine our importance.
 
 
cusm
18:04 / 13.05.02
I've always liked "Go if you must, stay if you will" as a quarter closing, myself. I see no problem in being political with the Powers That Be. I think some folks get a little too wrapped up in what they might call "high magick" sometimes. But this does bring up something I was just chatting about on a different list today. (syncronicity, anyone?)

When one works magick, one assumes a role of command. One steps into the role of the divine and acts with the authority of one in a position to command the forces at work. To a certain extent, the magickian becomes God, in as high an aspect necessary for the working at hand. So, the level of command vs supplication used demonstrates the level you are putting yourself at in relation with the spirits. One should hope it is not higher than you are actually authorized for

When one prays, one asks of higher powers to do something, as one in a positon lower than them. So sometimes, you may not want to use the asking approach, as this implies authority over you by the spirits in question.

The balance I shoot for is as one of authority to make the request, but done so in a polite and respectable manner. As one member of the celestrial beaurarcracy to another, I respectfully request you to preform your duty in this manner, in accordance with powers above each of us.

As for what one's place is in the celestrial beaurarcracy, one source I can't recall (I think it may have been By Oak Ash and Thorn) suggests this: Demons, unclean spirits, base elementals and the dead are below, as children. Nature spirits, angels, demigods, fae, elementals with personality, animal spirits, and most anything that can still relate to humanity are peers, as a brother or sister, or lover. Archangels, elemental lords, quarter powers, lesser gods, Loa, are above us but not beyond our reach, such as an older sibling or an aunt or uncle. Major Gods, archetypes, or beings of that level are superior to us, relating far more with the source of divinity than with humanity, and so should be treated as parents. That's a lot of my reinterpretation of it, but I think its a good guide to go by, as that is about what the spirits in question will expect from most to begin with.
 
 
Sebastian
13:48 / 14.05.02
Most of what has been written above is also nicely depicted at http://www.choronzon.com/efsd/entityfaq.html
, in the section Keeping Good Entity - Magician Relations, a sort of informal text I recall quite distinctly as entertaining, informative and practical. Let me know if you have any comments about it.
 
 
ciarconn
22:30 / 14.05.02
I do not know. the "human-as-higher-amongst-creation" in magick must come all the way from the middle age margickal rituals. That influence was evidente even in 19th century magick rituals like Dr Papus'.
There's no reason for the humans-"Otherbeings" to evolve, as the inherent anthropological beliefs implicit to magick have evolved as magickal paradigms have.
The greatest trouble woulod be trust-abusing spirits, but, there-s magick to take care of them, anyway.
 
  
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