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Potters Bar train crash

 
 
Ariadne
21:05 / 10.05.02
Holy shit. It's weird - none of the other crashes of recent years have upset me quite so much, and I can't say why. Possibly it's just a selfish thing, in that I've lived here longer now and done more train travel. It's just ... unreal. Train travel seems so comfy and happy, me and my book and my picnic.

For the benefit of non-UK people, there was a train crash today and eight people have died, with another 10 or so in intensive care. This is not a first.

And they still want to privatise the tube?

Do you travel by train? Or actively avoid it?
 
 
Shortfatdyke
21:18 / 10.05.02
i don't actually know much about this - did it derail and crash into a bridge or something? i read not long ago about a german company winning a contract to make trains for england and having to fuck up and nearly destroy some german railway track to recreate accurate conditions that their trains would be travelling in.

i travel by bus nearly all the time, i do love train journeys and don't/cannot afford to worry about whatever the risk may be - i try not to be complacent but a) if i don't travel by train i won't see my family (300 odd miles away) and b) i've survived being hit by lightning so feel i have nothing to lose really.....

privatising the tube is going to be disasterous - because privatisation in this country always means cutting corners.
 
 
Ariadne
21:25 / 10.05.02
Agreed on the privatisation front. And I'm sure someone could come up with figures showing that my alternatives - bus, car (rented) or bike - are statistically more dangerous. But still.

And what's this about lightning? Please tell!
 
 
Shortfatdyke
21:40 / 10.05.02
oh okay, the lightning story: i was walking over waterloo bridge during a storm, with someone, both hiding under an umbrella. suddenly i kind of lurched to one side and i felt an electric shock in my legs - you know, it's like the bones are being punched. the bloke i was with said he felt a shock in his stomach. we gathered lightning must have hit the brolly or something.
 
 
Ariadne
21:45 / 10.05.02
Holy shit, that's scary! Have you had any lasting effects?
 
 
Shortfatdyke
21:48 / 10.05.02
well i would like to say it's given me superhero type powers or at least meant i can stick a lightbulb in my mouth and see it light up, but no, sadly.
 
 
Ariadne
21:51 / 10.05.02
Darn. But at least it hasn't left you limping, or with half your face smiling while the other half cries.

And the superhero powers will receal themselves at the most unlikely moment. in Tesco, no doubt.
 
 
Ariadne
21:52 / 10.05.02
someone needs to design a keyboard with a gap between c and v.
 
 
Shortfatdyke
22:00 / 10.05.02
in tescos at hackney, i find one needs superhero powers.....

i seem to have swooped on your thread and diverted it. apologies!
 
 
Shortfatdyke
22:37 / 10.05.02
"The rear carriage flipped across two platforms and became wedged under the canopy of the station roof."

that, and reading of the passenger on the platform who turned round to see the fucking train *sliding along the platform towards him* has made me shudder. a lot of people have no choice but to travel by train. sounds like the track was bad. corporate manslaughter, anyone?
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
00:58 / 11.05.02
Looks like the way it's gonna be treated- some of the papers mention the possibility of criminal damage, but it seems like an outside possibility.
 
 
Turk
04:05 / 11.05.02
"the lightning story: i was walking over waterloo bridge during a storm, with someone, both hiding under an umbrella. suddenly i kind of lurched to one side and i felt an electric shock in my legs - you know, it's like the bones are being punched. the bloke i was with said he felt a shock in his stomach. we gathered lightning must have hit the brolly or something."

Science cap on, what you experienced was probably positive upcharge from the ground. Basically electricity reaching upwards through you to offer the lightning strike a path. Lots of tall or poking up objects emit them towards the sky to meet the opposite charge coming down from the thundercloud but only one of those up-charges connects for the lightning. You probably felt an upcharge that didn't connect and so didn't get directly hit, which'd be a lucky escape really.
 
 
Sleeperservice
06:46 / 11.05.02
While I feel for the people involved in this accident I have to say the media reaction to train crashes really annoys me. Far more people die in car crashes every day and yet nothing (realatively) is said. I think the media should show car crashes in detail. Many people just don't realise (or prefer to just stick their heads in the sand) what happens in car crashes. Many people, I would estimate about 25% (but thats just my estimate) still don't wear seat belts. I want to see pictures/film of these people on TV after they've been through the windscreen.

This may seem harsh. But I'm not a big car fan :/ and our love affair with the car won't change unless it's nastier side is shown more graphically on TV.
 
 
Shortfatdyke
07:17 / 11.05.02
thanks d, for the explanation about the lightning - that makes sense, although it doesn't sound quite as exciting!

it's true to say that the roads are far more dangerous than train or air travel could ever be. i think what really freaks people out is that there seems to have been so much wilful neglect of the railways over the years in this country - under investment by successive govts plus the huge cost of travel means the passenger (sorry, customer) is being openly treated with contempt.
 
 
w1rebaby
07:31 / 11.05.02
I'll second the "open contempt" comment. I take the train to and from work, and while it's certainly safer than driving, it's a generally appalling service. I go out of London against the commuter rush so you'd expect things to be not so bad, but there are delays every day; I pity anyone going the other direction, they have to deal with that and overcrowding as well. Nobody knows what is going on. There are constant signal failures (I imagine that, every time it rains, they have to get someone round to light the little candles again), points failures, trains where the driver has just got off and left, the announcements are wrong, the timetables are pointless, the seats are broken, the stations are filthy, none of the staff know anything and the carriages are full of lairy Essex teenagers. I can't blame Railtrack/WAGN for the last point but everything else, I can.

The sense of contempt comes from the fact that these things obviously could be improved, but are not being, and instead prices go up in all sorts of ways (for instance, ticket prices go up, but they also restrict how railcards operate, so you can't get discounts on fares you used to.)

On the plus side, I can get on the train in the morning no matter how crap I am feeling, and get to work safely - can't really drive like that. Plus I can read the paper, or play on the Gameboy, or listen to music. But those are benefits of the concept of rail travel, rather than this specific implementation of it.

I think the reason people are so much more concerned over rail safety, apart from the fact that there's generally a very poor understanding of risk, is that, like sfd says, they feel like they're being deliberately taken advantage of. They're putting their lives in someone else's hands, and they see those people as not giving a shit. On the road, there's always the illusion that your fate is under your control - regardless of the fact that there's not much you can do about an 18-wheeler running into you while the driver's sending text messages. I don't worry much about train safety, I just hate the inefficiency and exploitation.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
12:49 / 11.05.02
Of course it doesn't help matters that the current Transport Secretary is one of the most obviously shameless crooks in Westminster...
 
 
Ellis says:
13:04 / 11.05.02
I have to travel by train to work two to five days a week and i hate it, it's hot and overcrowded and smelly.
 
 
Mourne Kransky
15:28 / 11.05.02
Horrible thing and still haven't heard what they think the cause was.

Doing a lot of train travel between us at the moment, me and Ganesh. I did in fact leap happily enough on the 5pm train from Edinburgh bound for London yesterday, and even travelled in the rear compartment, not unduly concerned about my safety. I take the statistician's view that 10 people die on the roads every day.

What would make me reconsider train travel is the fact that, weekend time being currently so precious, I should have got in to Waverley by 10pm on my last trip back and the train arrived after 3am. Which sucks if you've a lot of work on at 9 the next morning. (Not to mention a job application still to complete online and then print and mail.)

Unfortunately one of the 2 toilets off that coach was already failing to flush and taps not working by the time we left Edinburgh. Within the hour, the other was non-functional too. Train toilets after five hours of stagnation and constant use would drive me to fly instead, not the safety issue.
 
 
that
15:35 / 11.05.02
Train travel is pretty grotty... intra-London train travel is the only type I really do on a regular basis, and I just love the whole pissed-off-people-trying-to-cram-themselves-into-each-other's-armpits type vibe of rush hour travel. Oh yes. But I don't even think about the safety issue, to tell you the truth... occasionally, on the tube, when someone is acting particularly dangerously, it pisses me the hell off... but I rarely consider mechanical failure/driver error. I don't drive, and I'm scared shitless of riding my bike on the roads... I loathe the buses as a rule, but, at any rate, trains and tubes are pretty much the best way to get about in London, for me, so I just try not to think too hard about the potential lethality (is that a word?) of it all. And I like the Tube. I know that's a really sick thing to admit...
 
 
Jack Fear
17:29 / 11.05.02
Jesus—I've been to Potters Bar. By train. I've been in that fucking station.

Not many places I can say that about.

That is all.
 
 
Sax
21:17 / 11.05.02
The Sun's report this morning was particularly horrific. Detailed descriptions of people with limbs missing, a man cut in half on the track, and a woman with the top of her head missing. I don't remember this from Hatfield or Selby.
 
 
The Strobe
22:01 / 11.05.02
It's a nasty crash, and it's got us worried because it happened in a station. Look at the pics. You'd think that'd be the best maintained bit of track, right? But no; the train derailed and mangled into the station itself - it's not just dangerous for passengers, it's dangerous for people waiting for other trains (the Cambridge Cruiser, as it is known, is fast, and from London stops at only Cambridge then Kings Lynn - it goes through PB pretty damn quick).

That's the Cambridge-London fast service I always use to get down to the Smoke for meets, exhibitions, theatre etc... not so sure I'll feel safe on it again. It's one of the better trains I've used - tenner return to london including travelcard, but that's not saying a lot given the sorry state of our rail network.
 
 
The Return Of Rothkoid
11:56 / 13.05.02
Sadly, I think that the investigation that happens after a big crash like this - and how many's it been, now? - will achieve precisely fuck-all. Again. I have a real fear that it's going to take something on the tube really fucking up for people in power to take notice.

And that's terrifying.
 
 
Shortfatdyke
12:11 / 13.05.02
from an article in today's guardian:

"A railway worker alerted rail management to a problem near Potters Bar station three weeks before Friday's train crash, a union leader said today.

The RMT's general secretary, Bob Crow, said one of his members reported a fault with the rail near the points and said the track was in a poor state.

"Our member wrote a letter saying that the track was not in a fit state. No response was made to him. He is now speaking to British Transport Police explaining what he wrote," Mr Crow said."
 
 
Our Lady of The Two Towers
17:01 / 13.05.02
Obviously tragic, but since that time more people have died on the road...
 
  
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