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mondo a-go-go
08:47 / 30.09.01
all news here, pleeeeease.
 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
11:56 / 01.10.01
In a move which is perhaps somewhat foolhardy, the Taliban have admitted that they know exactly where Bin Laden is, and that he is 'under their control'.

Smart move, guys. Way to avoid a war.
 
 
No star here laces
12:08 / 01.10.01
'S also been revealed that the Taliban approached Iran for military aid a couple of days ago. Iran refused. The brother of the assassinated Northern Alliance leader claimed today in an interview that it was "all Pakistan's fault" and that Pakistan had effectively installed the Taliban in government.

These are the people we are currently supplying huge amounts of weaponry to and are planning to install in government should the Taliban be effectively removed. They sound like a pleasant bunch of delusion free people.
 
 
Ethan Hawke
12:26 / 01.10.01
CNN.com reports that the gov't of the UK has frozen $90 million US in Taliban assets. Note that this is assets of the Taliban, the nominal governing party of Afghanistan (thus having at least pretentions to sovreignty) not assets connected directly to Osama bin Laden.

The article, however, makes it seem like this asset freezing has been going on since 1999. Is this accurate? Is this old news? I can't tell from CNN's "reporting".
 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
12:40 / 01.10.01
Everyone gets really peeved with CNN, and not without reason. But don't put them in scare quotes. There have been times when they've been the only people in the world with a decent idea of what's going on - as even the intelligence services have acknoewledged.
 
 
Enamon
13:11 / 01.10.01
http://www.securityfocus.com/news/257

quote:Hackers face life imprisonment under 'Anti-Terrorism' Act
Justice Department proposal classifies most computer crimes as acts of terrorism.
By Kevin Poulsen
Sep 24 2001 1:06PM PT

Hackers, virus-writers and web site defacers would face life imprisonment without the possibility of parole under legislation proposed by the Bush Administration that would classify most computer crimes as acts of terrorism.

The Justice Department is urging Congress to quickly approve its Anti-Terrorism Act (ATA), a twenty-five page proposal that would expand the government's legal powers to conduct electronic surveillance, access business records, and detain suspected terrorists.

The proposal defines a list of "Federal terrorism offenses" that are subject to special treatment under law. The offenses include assassination of public officials, violence at international airports, some bombings and homicides, and politically-motivated manslaughter or torture.

Most of the terrorism offenses are violent crimes, or crimes involving chemical, biological, or nuclear weapons. But the list also includes the provisions of the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act that make it illegal to crack a computer for the purpose of obtaining anything of value, or to deliberately cause damage. Likewise, launching a malicious program that harms a system, like a virus, or making an extortionate threat to damage a computer are included in the definition of terrorism.

To date no terrorists are known to have violated the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act. But several recent hacker cases would have qualified as "Federal terrorism offenses" under the Justice Department proposal, including the conviction of Patrick Gregory, a prolific web site defacer who called himself "MostHateD"; Kevin Mitnick, who plead guilty to penetrating corporate networks and downloading proprietary software; Jonathan "Gatsby" Bosanac, who received 18-months in custody for cracking telephone company computers; and Eric Burns, the Shoreline, Washington hacker who scrawled "Crystal, I love you" on a United States Information Agency web site in 1999. The 19-year-old was reportedly trying to impress a classmate with whom he was infatuated.

The Justice Department submitted the ATA to Congress late last week as a response to the September 11th terrorist attacks in New York, Washington and Pennsylvania that killed some 7,000 people.

As a "Federal terrorism offense," the five year statute of limitations for hacking would be abolished retroactively -- allowing computer crimes committed decades ago to be prosecuted today -- and the maximum prison term for a single conviction would be upped to life imprisonment. There is no parole in the federal justice system.

Those convicted of providing "advice or assistance" to cyber crooks, or harboring or concealing a computer intruder, would face the same legal repercussions as an intruder. Computer intrusion would also become a predicate offense for the RICO statutes.

DNA samples would be collected from hackers upon conviction, and retroactively from those currently in custody or under federal supervision. The samples would go into the federal database that currently catalogs murderers and kidnappers.

Civil liberties groups have criticized the ATA for its dramatic expansion of surveillance authority, and other law enforcement powers.

But Attorney General John Ashcroft urged swift adoption of the measure Monday.

Testifying before the House Judiciary Committee, Ashcroft defended the proposal's definition of terrorism. "I don't believe that our definition of terrorism is so broad," said Ashcroft. "It is broad enough to include things like assaults on computers, and assaults designed to change the purpose of government."

The Act is scheduled for mark-up by the committee Tuesday morning.
 
 
mondo a-go-go
13:21 / 01.10.01
blair certain of bin laden's guilt
 
 
Ethan Hawke
13:26 / 01.10.01
Sure, tons of people on this board can repeat a totally spurious rumor that CNN was running old footage of Palestinians celebrating, yet I get censured for implying that the writing of a particular story was shoddy. Sheesh.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
13:29 / 01.10.01
You didn't get "censured". I think Nick's point was far more generally aimed at that.
 
 
mondo a-go-go
13:35 / 01.10.01
[off topic] no, but i am very fucking inclined to censor people who get overly picky about basic typos. i'm seeing it a lot on the board, and especially in this forum. get over it, people. [/off topic]

now: BRING ME NEWS!
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
13:46 / 01.10.01
quote:Originally posted by Kooky is Eeevil:
[off topic] no, but i am very fucking inclined to censor people who get overly picky about basic typos. i'm seeing it a lot on the board, and especially in this forum. get over it, people. [/off topic]


Censured is a real word, Kooks, and the one I assumed todd meant to use. I wasn't suggesting it was a typo. I was just suggesting that he was mistaken, and that he was not being censured.

But hey...
 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
13:50 / 01.10.01
[off topic]I want to censure kooky in my dungeon in the Adirondacks.

Mwahahahahahaha.[/off topic]

todd: I'm disagreeing with something I perceived in your post, not censuring you. And yes, Flyboy is correct. I keep seeing scarequotes around the mainstream media as if they are a huge disinformation machine when they report things in a way we don't like...and when they report things in a way we do like, it's just our due. Much like what government thinks about the same people...but probably not the same stories...

Kooky: there's not a lot of news at the moment. Everything's hanging fire. The Taliban do rather seem to have dropped themselves in the pit of inept self-immolation, however.
 
 
The Return Of Rothkoid
14:13 / 01.10.01
BBC news article about how the US Attorney-General is warning of possible attacks, based on the US's response to the attacks of the 11th. Nothing new, except for this particular bit: quote:He called on the US Congress to enact new anti-terrorism laws before the end of the week, to make it easier to conduct searches and detain immigrants.The rest of the article rehashes Friday's warnings to Brits and US cits in areas where fundamentalist Islamic sects are active about the possiblity of kidnappings.
 
 
Ethan Hawke
14:13 / 01.10.01
Nick: If anything, I would agree with you that the assumption in this forum that CNN/NY Times etc. are propaganda machines is unwarranted and in general far from the truth. I was scare-quotingto indicate my displeasure with how the story was written, in that, to me, the content was not immediately manifest in an unambiguous way. Maybe I was just tired. I don't know. I do know I was being oversensitive.

I do believe, for the large part, that CNN and its kind are the best bet that civilians like us have for getting reliable and up-to-date information. I know plenty of people in all different types of journalism and I trust that what motivates them is (a) a search for facts and (b) a desire to serve the public.
 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
14:45 / 01.10.01
Digest:

Today's Guardian contains a full page article on evidence linking Bin Laden to the men who destroyed the WTC. Even given that this is not the 'sensitive' evidence which the US and UK are unwilling to release because it may compromise continuing operations, this is fairly convincing.

The Taliban have announced that they have Bin Laden under their protection. They reiterated their warning to the US not to attack them.

Yassir Arafat has come face to face with the limitations of his power. Despite his agreeing to a ceasefire, his people continue to attack Israeli installations. Israel has warned it will recommence assassinations and hostilities in 48 hours.

Focus magazine in Germany has alleged that German police arrested a group of arab men to prevent an attack on British Diplomats.
 
 
Ethan Hawke
14:51 / 01.10.01
Feds believe they've foiled possible attack on Sears Tower

ABCnews reports that the FBI believes 5 men arrested in the midwest in the wake of the sept. 11 terror attacks had plans to bomb the Sears Tower in Chicago using a truck bomb.

Question: Why skyscrapers, exactly? why not shopping malls or amusement parks or nuclear power plants?
 
 
Frances Farmer
16:21 / 01.10.01
For any who are interested, Afghani news :
http://www.sabawoon.com/news.asp
 
 
Frances Farmer
17:53 / 01.10.01
http://www.feminist.org/news/pr/pr072198.html

Is anyone else aware of this dynamic?
 
 
Disco is My Class War
07:16 / 02.10.01
quote:
...the assumption in this forum that CNN/NY Times etc. are propaganda machines is unwarranted and in general far from the truth...

I do believe, for the large part, that CNN and its kind are the best bet that civilians like us have for getting reliable and up-to-date information. I know plenty of people in all different types of journalism and I trust that what motivates them is (a) a search for facts and (b) a desire to serve the public.


And speaking of scare quotes, while off-topic:

"There is no such thing as a free press. You know and I know it. There is not one of you who would dare to write his honest opinion. The business of a journalist is to destroy truth, to lie outright, tp pervert, to vilify, fall at the feet of Mammon, and sell himself for daily bread. We are tools, vessels of rich men behind the scenes. We are jumping jacks. They pull the strings, we dance. Our talents, our possibillities and our lives are the properties of these men. We are intellectual prostitutes."

-- John Swainton, the ex-editor of the NY Times, addressing his staff on the day of his retirement.
 
 
sleazenation
07:16 / 02.10.01
actually i alwyas saw the so called scare quotes as a reference to sloppy 'bad' journalism rather than blatent propaganda...
 
 
The Return Of Rothkoid
12:04 / 02.10.01
Guardian story claims that bin Laden has been seen in Kabul, and that the US has a "pretty good idea" where he is.
 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
17:03 / 03.10.01
Bush: "A Palestinian State has always been part of the vision."

This comes as a surprise to many of us, no doubt Israel in particular.

See http://www.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/meast/10/03/mideast.violence/index.html - article titled '10 die in Mid East violence'.

[ 03-10-2001: Message edited by: Nick ]
 
 
grant
19:21 / 03.10.01
quote:Originally posted by Frances:
http://www.feminist.org/news/pr/pr072198.html

Is anyone else aware of this dynamic?


This REALLY needs to be spread around.
 
 
Frances Farmer
09:03 / 04.10.01
Grant, in case you're interested..

The following quote originates here, a page hosted by the U.S. Department of Energy :

quote:
"A Memorandum of Understanding was signed between Turkmenistan, Afghanistan, Pakistan, and Uzbekistan to build the Central Asia natural gas pipeline (Centgas) stretching from Turkmenistan to Pakistan (and perhaps India) via Afghanistan. In addition, the proposed Central Asia Oil Pipeline would also pass from Turkmenistan through Afghanistan en route to a Pakistani port on the Arabian Sea.

However, the ongoing Afghan civil war has prevented the projects from going forward. While all of the major Afghan factions have agreed in principle to the construction of the pipelines, the pipelines are not likely to attract the necessary financing without a peace settlement and international recognition of the government in Afghanistan. Although the Taliban controls 90% of Afghan territory, only the United Arab Emirates, Pakistan, and Saudi Arabia officially recognize the Taliban government. Following the August 20, 1998 U.S. bombing raids on Afghan strongholds of suspected terrorist Osama bin Laden, Unocal announced that it was suspending work on the gas pipeline, and in December 1998, it withdrew from the Centgas consortium, citing the turmoil and high risk in the region."
 
 
yawn - thing's buddy
10:10 / 04.10.01
http://www.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/europe/10/04/russia.plane.crash/


RUSSIAN PLANE CRASH - flight from Tel Aviv...
 
 
Frances Farmer
20:33 / 04.10.01
Earlier today, police in Palm Bay, FL, searched a home due to a clearly visible pipe bomb on the kitchen table, and found a vial in the refrigator over the course of the search labeled 'Bacillus Anthracis' :
http://www.naplesnews.com/00/09/florida/d503894a.htm

Later today, a Florida man was diagnosed with Anthrax :
http://www.cnn.com/2001/HEALTH/conditions/10/04/us.anthraxcase.ap/index.html

If I understand the report correctly, the vial contained Anthrax in liquid. If I understand the literature about Anthrax, it has to be in a powdered form in order to be distributed over a wide area or via aerosol. Regardless, I'm a wee spooked.

Earlier today, CNN had a story on the main site discussing the raid in which the vial was discovered. I'm now unable to find that story on CNN's site - only the story about Grant's collegue. Is anyone able to locate this story on CNN's site?
 
 
grant
00:59 / 05.10.01
Actually, I believe the "vial" story is nearly exactly a year old -- September 2000. I think the police at the time said it was a false alarm, but then again, Palm Bay ain't exactly equipped with high tech testing equipment.

("Any of your boys sick, Cap'n? Hell, then this cain't be dangerous!")

Palm Bay's out by Lake Okeechobee.
Although, come to think of it, the hijackers were reportedly shopping for crop dusters near there (Belle Glade, FL).
 
 
Frances Farmer
16:50 / 05.10.01
quote:Originally posted by grant:
Actually, I believe the "vial" story is nearly exactly a year old -- September 2000. I think the police at the time said it was a false alarm, but then again, Palm Bay ain't exactly equipped with high tech testing equipment.

("Any of your boys sick, Cap'n? Hell, then this cain't be dangerous!")

Palm Bay's out by Lake Okeechobee.
Although, come to think of it, the hijackers were reportedly shopping for crop dusters near there (Belle Glade, FL).


No shit?

I really need to be more discriminatory about those dates... Thanks for the correction. Had me going. It was on CNN earlier that day though. Damn.
 
 
sirius
20:59 / 06.10.01
CNN's desire to serve the public?

Sometimes they give us more help than
we need, in order to form our opinions.

Here is "a thousand words" on what our President Bush calls "subliminable"
http://www.artbell.com/img/cnnghost.jpg
 
 
Mr Tricks
09:23 / 10.10.01
Some thing I came accrosshere.

Bush & Bin Laden's family connections...

quote:
Incredibly, Salem went on to become a business partner of the man who is leading the hunt for his brother. In the 1970s, he and George W Bush were founders of the Arbusto Energy oil company in Mr Bush's home state of Texas.
 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
10:28 / 10.10.01
quote:BREAKING NEWS from CNN.com

-- Investigators suspect strain of anthrax found in Florida was manufactured, not natural, source tells CNN. Details soon.


Can anyone say 'weapons of mass destruction'?

But it pays to be circumspect; this has not yet been connected with any terror threat etc. See below:
http://www.cnn.com/2001/HEALTH/10/10/anthrax/index.html

[ 10-10-2001: Message edited by: Nick ]
 
 
Ethan Hawke
14:59 / 11.10.01
CIA says bin Laden "owns" Taliban

CIA reveals that bin Laden has given $100 million to the Taliban over the past five years, making him the single largest financial supporter of the regime.
 
 
Ariadne
19:07 / 11.10.01
Attacks in US and 'US interests overseas' imminent?

The FBI thinks so. From the BBC:

quote: The American Federal Bureau of Investigation has issued a warning that there may be more attacks within the United States in the next few days.
The FBI also warned that US interests overseas may be at risk.

The FBI says it has received information which leads it to believe that the threats are credible, although no targets have actually been specified.

It says it has asked all local law enforcement agencies to be on the highest alert, and has called on people to be vigilant.

"Certain information, while not specific as to target, gives the government reason to believe that there may be additional terrorist attacks within the United States and against US interests overseas over the next several days," the FBI said in a statement.

It was the FBI's second such request this week, but the first to suggest attacks might be imminent.
 
 
Enamon
20:38 / 11.10.01
quote:Originally posted by Frances:
http://sabawoon.com/news.asp?id=4657&view=detail

The above link is to an article written by an Afghani news agency discussing the Taliban's willingness as of 10/7/01 to extradite Osama bin Laden to Pakistan but nowhere else.

Notice you won't find this on CNN.



Actually this was all over the news 2 or 3 hours before we started bombing. Coincidence? I mean, coupled with the evidence (or lack of it) that we've seen so far it's really strange why we're bombing Afghanistan. For that matter, does anyone know why the Soviet Union wanted to invade Afghanistan? What is it about that little country?
 
 
Ronald Thomas Clontle
20:41 / 11.10.01
I hope that this does not seem callous, but I'm hoping that if there is indeed another attack this week, it is in a place other than New York.

Part of me is very skeptical of their ability to pull off another large attack given the new state of security, and that they failed the majority of their attack on Sept 11th (really, if you look at it, they did. they only hit two of their intended targets, and even the damage to the Pentagon was likely not nearly what they had anticipated)
 
  

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