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Underground > Switchboard >

Anti-Americanism

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14:27 / 10.10.01

quote:Originally posted by straylight:

Also, I think it's dangerous to assume that that $43 gift, whoever it really went to, is common knowledge. Among people like us ("us" in the loosest sense, meaning those who are obviously to some degree up on what happens in the world beyond our national boundaries), certainly it's common knowledge. As is the treatment of women in Afghanistan and other pieces of information that we, to some degree, probably take for granted. But to those American tourist types that someone was (understandably) mocking before? It's easy to assume that everyone else in the country (I'm speaking as an American here) knows the same things my friends and I talk about. Too easy. But the simple fact is, they don't. I live in New York and I get to imagine that the rest of the country is as liberal and as informed as the people I talk to every day. But I come from a little tiny town on the West Coast, and really, I should know better.

Sorry. That was a bit of a tangent. But it's true, I think, and frightening, that of the supposed 90% of people supporting Bush's war (a figure I don't believe to begin with), many of them will believe what they see on their corporate-sponsored news channel of choice and never look for any other information.

A quibble: The info you state above (th 43 million grant, Taliban's treatment of women) HAS been reported, ad nauseum, by the "corporate sponsored news channel[s]." I may be alone on this, but up until the present bombing began, I was very impressed with the way the mainstream media handled the crisis. It was a lot less jingoistic and one-sided than one would expect. I saw tons of interviews with people from Afghanistan, run-downs of US action in Somolia, the Palestine question, etc.

Now, unfortunately, the Bush admin. has put a tight lid on info about military action, so the news stations have no real news to report. Which is scary.

15:55 / 10.10.01

The Village Voice has a cover story devoted to Anti-American sentiment in Islambad, Peshawar and Karachi (my boss' hometown).

These people, the women in particular, loathe both the Taliban and Pakistanis like Mullah Syed Ubad Ulah Shah. "I hate the fundamentalists and what they've done to this country—how they've held us hostage with their demonstrations," says Sairah Irshad Khan, a tall, imposing woman who is senior editor at Newsline, Pakistan's leading investigative magazine.

Yet Sairah, like most others from the upper classes, has harsh words for the U.S. as well. "People here say, 'When is America going to get up and ask, Why is this [the WTC bombing] happening?' They need to look at the mindless bombing of Iraq. Saddam is still there—you're bombing women and children. To what end, I want to know?"

Of the American media, she asks, "Why are the IRA not referred to as Catholic terrorists; why is Timothy McVeigh not a Christian terrorist? Israelis are not referred to as Jewish terrorists. But if Arabs are involved, suddenly they're Islamic terrorists. There are all kinds of Muslim countries with distinct identities. We're not all the same. Islam does not condone terrorism."

[ 10-10-2001: Message edited by: Ierne ]

16:17 / 10.10.01

MJ-12: Those are governamental pages. You don't expect them to actually come out and admit they're fucking up, do you?
Isn't it a bit like asking to the cat what happened to the fish that was for dinner?

(Mock me as much as you can for this stupid analogy. Go on, really, I don't care... I'm just in the middle of some paperwork, can't focus on this right now...)

16:50 / 10.10.01

They're also from May, prior to these events. If they'd been sending direct to the Taliban, while this was going on, they'd more likely have been doing something covert, which may very well have been going on.

16:59 / 10.10.01

todd: I meant, but said badly (I apologize) that before the current situation, before Afghanistan became the only thing to talk about, I don't think that $43 million gift was such common knowledge. I think it was reported, but I don't think that many of us paid attention.

Sorry I wasn't more clear...I am getting edgy and cagey and certain of nothing so much as the fact that no matter how much I read, how much I try to learn about what's really going on and why it really happened, I won't be able to know enough.

About the major news outlets: they are getting better, it's true, but SO much rumor and speculation was being passed off as actual journalism in the beginning that I don't feel like I can trust a lot of the news. Honestly. Maybe that's too much paranoia but I am having a hard time thinking that I'm not being coddled rather than informed. Either that or it's total scare tactics, like the giant "ANTHRAX OUTBREAK" headline in the NY Daily News or Post (I forget which) this morning.

MJ-12: was this -

quote:When someone say's "the US has been the best friend of democracy in Latin America," you react "Bullshit! You're either lying to me, or you don't know what the fuck you're talking about. Either way, I can't trust what you say." That is not the reaction I want to get from people.

directed at me? I hope not, because that wasn't how I meant to come across. I was genuinely curious where you'd read that; if someone tells me information that's completely contrary to whatever else I've read, I want to know where it came from so I can read it too and try to get the whole picture. I wasn't trying to say you were spewing bullshit, not in the least.

[ 10-10-2001: Message edited by: straylight ]

17:09 / 10.10.01

quote: They're also from May, prior to these events. If they'd been sending direct to the Taliban, while this was going on, they'd more likely have been doing something covert, which may very well have been going on.

I don't know if I understand you correclty. (My fault)
If you're talking about what I think you're talking, I just want to point out that the Taleban didn't start being the fanatic dictatorial power they are from 09/11 on.
In May they already were blowing up the buddhas and spewing a whole bunch of straight edge interpretations of the Kuran that turned the life of the Afhgans into hell. If this is not what you were talking about, ignore this.

17:16 / 10.10.01

quote:Originally posted by straylight:

MJ-12: was this -
<SNIP>
directed at me? I hope not, because that wasn't how I meant to come across. I was genuinely curious where you'd read that; if someone tells me information that's completely contrary to whatever else I've read,

Not directed at you at all. It's just that we're in a situation where, unless we just want to have a great big, "war is bad," "no, war is really bad" discussion in circles with ourselves, we need to be as rock solid in our info as possible.

17:22 / 10.10.01

quote:Originally posted by Jade Emperor:

I don't know if I understand you correclty. (My fault)
If you're talking about what I think you're talking, I just want to point out that the Taleban didn't start being the fanatic dictatorial power they are from 09/11 on.

What I mean is, why bother with a coverup of something at that time? There was nothing to be lost by agreeing to aid Afghanistan's people at that time. I could see an Iran/Contra type deal happending behind the scenes, but you don't hold a press conference for that. I can see the Taliban making concessions in exchange, because, contrary to how they're being presented, it's entirely possible that they aren't total fucking monsters who want everyone to starve. Just mostly monsters. Of course, every dollar they don't have to spend to feed someone is one more dollar that they can spend on bullets, but that's the dilemma of an embargo anywhere.

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