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Underground > Conversation >

Should we have Safe Spaces

07:03 / 07.05.02

One of the more remarkable opportunities "the net" provides is that of the virtual Safe Space where one can discuss anything ze chooses with people of like mind without fear of, well, people who wanna piss you off or crap on yr carpet and tell you it's a right rather than an act of violence.

In policy, it's said that a sex forum would be difficult to justify 'cause "some people" would take advantage of it, literally and metaphorically. Barbelith posters are notorious for their suspicion of rules and sanctions on "free speech," but there are methods for enforcing safe zones. Sex is really the litmus issue, though: the one where we'd probably need sanctions to make it hospitable, and the one that would raise the most hackles...

Other boards, despite whatever flaws they might have, run successful safe spaces. In fact, with a membership cap, the underground is effectively a Barbie safe space. Do need, or could we use, Safe Spaces here?

08:43 / 07.05.02

With a membership cap, the underground is effectively a Barbie safe space.

It seems to me that new memberships were suspended in order to keep one person out. And that person keeps comming back again and again and will keep shiting on the rug until all his dormant ficsuits have been removed. Heres a question: How come every "long time lurker" that mysteriously pops up out of the blue can't wait more than a week to post a long meaningless rant or manifesto? Because they're all the same fuckin person. So why the hesitation when it comes to killing unused ficsuits? I imagine most of the suits

A. belong to people that stopped by once and responded to something they saw
B. belong to long time lurkers who woln't miss the suits anyway
C. belong to my buddy Andy who is keeping them so he can come back the next time he gets booted.

People aren't going to feel this is a "safe place" unless the person that makes it "unsafe" leaves (or is pushed). If we aren't going to clean out all the unused ficsuits we may as well open up to new members. Its highly unlikely that any new trolls will have the same perseverance as the one we already have.

08:44 / 07.05.02

Does this belongs in the policy?

ONLY NICE THINGS

08:47 / 07.05.02

Not a bad point. There is a case for either purging all possible Knodge access points, or opening the borders and giving up on stopping him from getting in, concentrating instead on making it easier to get rid - Knodge Squad, anyone?

08:56 / 07.05.02

Safe Spaces are quite work-intensive, since they really require full moderation of all messages. That would make them a lot less fast-moving and vibrant than the existing forums.

On a basic level, sure, nothing wrong with it. It's just... I don't see the need. You're right that this is a safe space to some degree (as are all moderated boards) and I think that's all that's needed for the most part.

K9's right about the requirement being based on the actions of one person, as well, and it seems odd to create whole new forums just to deal with one recurring person. The "ignore" button works perfectly well for one person. It's not like we have huge floods of racist homophobic trolls.

YNH, what sort of subjects did you have in mind when you were thinking of safe spaces?

Less searchable M0rd4nt

09:01 / 07.05.02

The "ignore" button is redundant when an individual continually changes identity.

We're The Great Old Ones Now

09:07 / 07.05.02

I think Knodge and his ilk are a somewhat separate issue. A 'safe space' woulc be useful in areas where 'lithers might not otherwise feel comfortable raising issues even with others on the board, for fear the response on a matter close to their own lives might be abrasive rather than constructive.

This could be valuable in a sex forum, for example. Or in the case of(Jack, forgive me editing you to make a better example) Jack Fear's objections to body piercing: suppose Jack had a kid who had decided s/he wanted a load of piercings, and Jack wanted to discuss it, without fear of being blasted for his dislike of piercing.

There are things we disagree on, and some of them we are passionate about. But some of them (sexual politics, abortion, psychological health vs. alternate perceptions, revolutionary action) are very real, and can be major aspects of our lives. It's not always comfortable to expose yourself, even here.

I wonder whether a 'safe space' icon would be the way forward. A little doodad which warns you as you post: someone has a heavy vested interest in this discussion, don't rant, please.

ONLY NICE THINGS

09:13 / 07.05.02

I'm dubious about the right of posters to impose conditions on the response they get...how about fora or topics where the poster and any respondents are automatically kitted out in anonymous IDs?

09:15 / 07.05.02

Yeah so I can go there and say "ALL FAGS SHOULD DIE" and noone will know who it was.

The Return Of Rothkoid

09:20 / 07.05.02

As has been pointed out by most people here, the safe spaces would only work if they were super-moderated - very, very work intensive - or if everyone respected the spaces and abided by rules set up to ensure they ran smoothly.

It only takes one fucktard to piss on the spongecake. And I think we know what the golden icing status around here is, right?

So... no. I think it wouldn't work here. Sadly.

09:38 / 07.05.02

The "ignore" button is redundant when an individual continually changes identity.

yeah, but it only takes one abusive post and then you can ignore them in that incarnation. The rate of identity change is not that high. "ignore" starts to lose its utility when there are multiple simultaneous abusers, or when there's an open sign-up policy.

Jack The Bodiless

14:41 / 07.05.02

Well, the ignore button has never worked for me anyway... I have my own built in ignore button. I call it 'my brain'... I don't know, you kids and your technology...

ONLY NICE THINGS

15:11 / 07.05.02

Bio K9. Ooops. Hadn't thought of that. I guess I just tend to think the best of people.

My daddy always told me that a kind word was a glass of water in a dry spell. I'll take that to my grave.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

16:03 / 07.05.02

My daddy always told me that a kind word was a glass of water in a dry spell. I'll take that to my grave.

For the love of God, man! This is even worse than the huggles.

18:12 / 07.05.02

So, am I to understand that y'all are generally in favor of Safe Spaces but have issues with the, uh, mechanics of the whole thing?

1) Heavy moderation - (look for blatant bile in posts?)
2) Rebuking membership for infractions
3) Flags
4) Anonymous IDing

The latter two rely on the kindness of strangers which, for the most part, is what Barbelith thrives on. We should at least be talking about it, getting the notion out there so the community knows we might wanna do this...

00:09 / 08.05.02

Disney World?

Disco is My Class War

00:21 / 08.05.02

In a practical sense, I have given up on thinking of any space as 'safe'. Even ones which were conceptualised in the context of making spaces in which personal disclosure could be made without judgment or harrassment, in a feminist or queer-friendly tradition.

People need to be aware that even if they post anonymously online, in
spaces are 'supposed' to be safe, though whatever kinds of policy or guidelines or whatever, they may still be hurt, harrassed or come out feeling hard done by. But that shouldn't stop people from disclosing information... you take a risk, every time you say something scary. But without taking risks where would we be?

Personally, I reckon an anonymous sex forum would be great. I think it would be wonderful to have a space in which to share that kind of knowledge on the 'Lith.