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Rap Recommendations?

 
  

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Trijhaos
19:52 / 06.05.02
Ok, since making a general blanket statement about rap in Cop Killer's latest thread (I know, I know, not the smartest thing to do), people have been saying "Check this out" which completely derails Cop Killer's thread. Since I know most people don't like it when their thread is completely derailed, I figured I'd start this one.

Recommend some rap. Make me believe that rap isn't about about shooting, drugs, and fucking. Give me a reason to like rap. Give reasons for your choices, not just "This rocks!". Come on! Lay it on me!
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
20:37 / 06.05.02
You should probably start calling it "hip hop", because that's a lot broader than "rap".

Old threads for Trijhaos to look at:

Hip Hop Who's Cool

last year's hip hop

the beat makers

Wu-Tang

Mystikal

Outkast

The Coup

Dr. Octogon

cLOUDDEAD

Battles

Adult Contemporary Hip Hop

Princess Superstar

Outkast II

State of Hip Hop 2001

Jay-Z/R Kelly
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
20:39 / 06.05.02
By the way, why are you so incredibly hung up on sex and drugs in music? There's plenty of that in rock music, but I don't hear you complaining about that...
 
 
Trijhaos
20:45 / 06.05.02
I'm not hung up on it. Unfortunately, as I've mentioned both here and in Cop Killer's thread, I do not have much experience with this particular genre, so all I've heard is music about sex and drugs and the like. I want to give this genre a chance, thus the reason for this thread.

Yes, rock has sex and drugs, but I've listened to enough rock to know its not completely about sex and drugs. I want to do the same for this genre.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
21:35 / 06.05.02
Well, I've got to tell you, yr doing yrself a major disservice by having us all put all of our suggestions through a "what won't make Trijhaos uncomfortable?" filter. An incredible number of musically and lyrically brilliant music has to be cut out to meet yr standards, and I think it's a big mistake to shut out the likes of Wu, Biggie, Jay-Z, Kool G Rap, Outkast, Kool Keith, The Neptunes/NERD etc etc etc because they press the "pisses off middle class whitey" buttons.

Meeting yr qualifications, I can tell you all about a lot of DJ/turntablism records, beard-hop folks like cLOUDDEAD, Anti-Pop Consortium, Black Eyed Peas, Company Flow/Def Jux, Cannibal Ox, folks like Public Enemy and Beastie Boys, or even motherfucking Will Smith, but I think yr missing out on waaaaaaaaaaay too much. Honestly, I'd rather you just not ever listen to hip hop than just become one more uptight 'liberal' white guy who wants to listen to hip hop which speaks to only the sterilized version of black people that makes them feel comfortable and safe.
 
 
Trijhaos
21:48 / 06.05.02
Oh yes, please don't make me uncomfortable. I wouldn't want to be offended by the dirty words. Jesus, very little offends me. If there's something out there that does have explicit lyrics, or deals with the themes I mentioned earlier, that's worth listening to, recommend it.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
21:51 / 06.05.02
Okay, that's a lot better, man! You're going to get much better recommendations that way. Believe me!

I think that you should go through all of those threads I linked, I think a lot of the answers yr looking for have already been offered up on this board already over the past year.
 
 
Utopia
22:56 / 06.05.02
as someone not entirely in love with hip-hop, but learning, may i also suggest The Roots (philly's own). this is the first hip-hop act since mc hammer that's got non-hop lovers gettin in tha groove.

and flux, don't be to hard on tha haos. many of us were raised in a rock v. rap atmosphere by people who fought the rock v. disco battle. it has nothing to do with racism or insensitivity. having rock invaded by limp bizkit, instead of the better rock/hip-hop fusions, didn't help either. it is true that a variety of hip-hop, as i am coming to learn, never gets media attention while the "smak yo bitch up" (oops, that's prodigy) set gets all the attention. yeah, this is because sex/violence sells and bill o'reilly can bitch about it on fox. what can ya do?

the truth about music is it's not one language, as my 4th grade music teacher would have you believe. music is an infinite number of languages that each requires it's own interepretation as well as understanding. granted, a lot of music (in genres) bases its language on past examples. so if someone doesn't like a certain type of music, it's probably not because they're ignorant, it's just because no one has ever walked them thru the language. i've gotten into house and drum and base only because a friend helped me thru it (well, i'm still relatively fresh to these genres...). ignorance only comes when someone refuses to learn. trijhaos was only expressing his non-ignorant point of view in saying that itz all about guns an' bitches. but like i said before, turn on mtv and see what's playing (hey, same goes for rock on mtv also!!)
 
 
The Natural Way
09:18 / 07.05.02
Yeah, one thing....

Just to raise the whole Beard-Hop debate from its unquiet grave...again.

I'm not massively into all this stuff, but some of these guys've got some tunes, maaaaan. I think there's a kind of ambient, general feeling on barbelith that crews like APC are somehow too, ummm, 'white'. And I just want to know what this actually means.... Is it because they don't bang on about big titty ho's? Do they fail to represent the authentic 'black experience', simultaneously garnering white, college support and alienating the potential black audience? Is it just because they've got a record deal w/ Warp? I mean, what's the problem? I'd probably rather listen to Missy than cLOUDDEAD, but I'm not going to rule them out just because I know some thin, bearded white guys that like them. I'm just a bit concerned that the quest for authentically black music is just a little racist in itself, in that it presupposes innate qualities of 'blackness'.

Check out the APC interview on Warp Radio at www.warprecords.com. These guys are 'down w/ the street', but they also have other interests.....
 
 
videodrome
10:32 / 07.05.02
Speaking of Beard-Hop: MC Stephen Hawking. "Entropy" is a classic, underplayed tune.
 
 
No star here laces
11:19 / 07.05.02
ahhh beard hop.

I have a few minutes to kill before my nose is due back on the grindstone, and what better way to spend 'em than bashing beardies?

First up, there is certainly no Barbe-consensus that beard-hop = bad. In fact I'll bet you ten to one that the number of cLOUDdead records owned by peeps on the board outnumbers the number of Nas records by a considerable margin. In fact, last time I checked there were only about 3 anti-beards on here. We're just more vocal.

Reasons beard-hop is shite:
1) Lack of groove - can't dance to it, can't freak to it, I got no use for it
2) It has a rock attitude - i.e. wilfully obscure and painful sounding. If you like hip hop because it isn't like rock, then you aren't going to like beard-hop. On the other hand if you like rock, beard-hop is the easiest way into hip hop.
3) MCs with lyrics but no flow.
4) Music for boys in bedrooms.
5) Beards.

None of which are racially specific.
 
 
Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!
11:43 / 07.05.02
The Pharcyde's first album!

I believe it to be real black music. As in, they're all skinny losers who sound funny. Yes, none of this pretending to be thugged out here, oh no. It also features the word "Jiggaboo" which just sounds really funny.
 
 
The Natural Way
12:32 / 07.05.02
Lyra: big generalising all over the place. Yeah, the beard-hoppers have no flow, you can't dance to their stuff, it's rock inspired....

C'mon.

I'm not a big fan of cLOUDEAD because they're a bit too navel gazey, but some APC stuff, fr example, really makes me want to leap about - it's not all the same thing.
 
 
No star here laces
14:01 / 07.05.02
But if it wasn't like that it wouldn't be beard-hop (refer back to my definition of beard hop for proof).

Hah, I win with circular argument.

Seriously though, having more flow or more groove than other beard-hop does not equal having groove or flow. Show me a beard-mc with flow like Sadat X or Big L or a beard-track as funky as a Neptunes production and I'll capitulate...
 
 
GreatForm
14:43 / 07.05.02
most of Dmx's songs arent about sex, drugs, and violence
 
 
The Natural Way
15:02 / 07.05.02
Knew you'd come in w/ the circular beard-hop thing. Cheek!

I'm not comparing APC w/ other beard, just saying they flow and funk me.

I love the word "beard".

And the word "Guffufnahhurgh". That's a real good one.
 
 
rizla mission
15:03 / 07.05.02
Well, er, I really like 'beard-hop'. And I like 'normal' hip-hop or whatever the appropriate term is too.

They've got a different focus, they're going for different things. Dismissing one cos it's not the other is kind of limiting.

Yeah, if you're looking for groove n' flow n' fun, beard-hop probably isn't the best place to look. But if you're looking for some of the maddest noise and mindbending-est words around, then it surely is.

(Tho if you ask me, the Wu-Tang, who are often held up as the pinnicle of non-beard hip-hop, can be a hell of a lot more dense and anti-pop than, say, Quannum on occasion).

And I don't think "wilfully obscure and painful sounding" neccesarily equates with 'rock' automatically. I see what you're getting at, but: "Yeah .. wilfully obscure and painful sounding, like, uh, Aerosmith". I suppose beard-hop appeals to the same kind of people who dig post/math rock and underground glitchy electronica and such like, because these genres all put the priority on intelligence and innovation and crazy noise, which, and here's the important bit again, ISN'T NECESSARILY A GOOD THING, BUT ISN'T NECESSARILY A BAD THING.
It all depends on what yr looking for from yr music at a particular moment in time..
 
 
Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!
16:17 / 07.05.02
I think we should all just listen to the Pharcyde and get high.
 
 
Locust No longer
17:26 / 07.05.02
Flux's comments to Trijhaos had me wondering, why is it racist to not want to listen to misogynistic, sexist, or ignorant spoutings even if it is considered to be really well done? Isn't it racist to assume that black rappers should be let off the hook because it's just a part of the media created culture of what black people are supposedly really like? Shouldn't we all be judged by the same standards?

By no means am I saying all hip hop is misogynistic, sexist, or ignorant, either.
 
 
Seth
18:22 / 07.05.02
So, Trijhaos: now that you've read the same hip hop debate in fifteen separate threads (kindly reprinted here for your convenience), who you gonna try first? Most middle class white kids I know got into Wu Tang and kinda branched out from there: I think the variety in their sound and delivery over the years covers most bases. As long as you know which of their records to avoid like the plague - for quality, not profanity reasons, of course - you should be fine.

Shame we lost the graemlin.
 
 
Seth
18:23 / 07.05.02
Oh, no - there he is...
 
 
Trijhaos
18:43 / 07.05.02
The choices are overwhelming.

Alas, I don't have the money to buy more than one CD. Although, I could probably find the cash to buy 2.

I was thinking something along the lines of Outkast or Dr. Octagon.
I've heard some of Wu Tang's stuff and it left me a bit cold.

So Thursday, once I get access to my car again, I will hop down to one of the local shops and see what I can get.
 
 
Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!
19:56 / 07.05.02
Actually, I've developed a bit of a disliking for a whole lot of hip-hop. It just started to seem further and further away from me, and I know a bunch of people who smoke weed all day, listen to hip-hop and say "that's dope, man" and other assorted and wholly lame sayings. And they just make me wanna smack my head against the wall repeatedly.

Still listen to a bit of Dr.Octagon, Pharcyde and stuff though. And I like the really old, plain fun stuff. Oh yeah.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
20:03 / 07.05.02
(Tho if you ask me, the Wu-Tang, who are often held up as the pinnicle of non-beard hip-hop, can be a hell of a lot more dense and anti-pop than, say, Quannum on occasion).

Absolutelt. This is why the Wu are key - they give the lie to the idea that this dichotomy within hip-hop even exists...
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
20:16 / 07.05.02
I can't emphasize enough how excellent Ready To Die by The Notorious B.I.G. is, I really think that you should hear that record. Here's a list of records I would highly recommend to Trijhaos as starting points:

* Outkast - Big Boi and Andre present Outkast
* Dr. Octogon - Dr. Octogonacologist
* Jay-Z - MTV Unplugged 2.0 (or The Blueprint)
* Mos Def and Talib Kweli are Black Star (s/t)
* The Fugees - The Score
* Latyrx (s/t)
* various artists - Solesides Greatest Bumps
* Public Enemy - It Takes A Nation of Millions To Hold Us Back
* Nas - Illmatic
* The Coup - Party Music
* Dr. Dre - The Chronic
* A Tribe Called Quest - The Low End Theory
* Company Flow - Funcrusher Deluxe
* De La Soul - 3 Feet High and Rising
* The Roots - Things Fall Apart
* Common - Like Water For Chocolate
* Ghostface Killah - Supreme Clientele
* Method Man & Redman - Blackout!
* The Notorious B.I.G. - Ready To Die
* Wu-Tang Clan - Enter the Wu-Tang (36 Chambers)

The latter two being the two finest hip hop records ever made, in my opinion.
 
 
The Strobe
21:29 / 07.05.02
I basically started at Ninja Tune via the FANTASTIC Xen Cuts and worked backward. And sideways. And diagonally.

Still no Wu or BIG here, but I might investigate...
 
 
shirtless, beepers and suntans
22:34 / 07.05.02
a tribe called quest.

dig those spacey jazz loops and smooth rhymes.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
00:11 / 08.05.02
Trijhaos, I'd be happy to send you some cds covering as many notable artists/songs as I can. PM yr info. I just looked at that list a few hours after posting it, and I'm thinking of lots and lots of records that I didn't mention that are just as essential as those.

I really like what Fly just said about the Wu. I'm still very proud of my Wu discography guide that I put up a few months back, and I think it's pretty helpful in figuring out their enormous collective discography.

Ha! Looking back at that post, it's probably one of the few genuinely useful things I've posted here in the year I've been active here...
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
13:12 / 08.05.02
For those who may be curious, this is what I came up with for Trijhaos this morning -

The Notorious B.I.G. "Things Done Changed"
Dr. Dre and Snoop Dog "Nuthin' But A G Thang"
The Coup "5 Million Ways To Kill A CEO"
Outkast "I'll Call Before I Come"
J-Zone "Pimps Don't Pay Taxes"
Prince Paul "Beautiful Night (Manic Psychopath)"
Eric B. and Rakim "Juice"
A Tribe Called Quest "Scenario"
Medina Green "Crosstown Beef"
Pete Rock and Method Man "Half Man Half Amazing"
Timbaland and Magoo "Indian Carpet"
Digable Planets "Dial 7"
Company Flow "The Fire In Which You Burn"
Sensational "Excellence Makes Wack Irrelevant"
Cannibal Ox "Iron Galaxy"
Mystikal "Bouncin' Back"
Lil' Kim "Suck My Dick"
Mobb Deep "Play"

Marley Marl w/ Kool G Rap, Big Daddy Kane, Masta Ace, Craig G "The Symphony"
Wu-Tang Clan "7th Chamber"
Dr. Octogon "No Awareness"
Slug "Nothing But Sunshine"
Roots Manuva "Witness"
Clipse "Grindin'"
M.O.P. "Downtown Swinga"
Pharoah Monch "Simon Says"
Mos Def "Ms Fat Booty"
DMX "Party Up"
Missy w/ Ludacris "One Minute Man"
Two Live Crew "Throw The D"
Atmosphere "Don't Ever Fucking Question That"
MF Doom "Rhymes Like Dimes"
Fugees "Zealots"
Mike Ladd "5000 Miles West of the Future"
Nas "One Mic"
Raekwon "Heaven and Hell"

cLOUDDEAD "Empty Things"
Latyrx "8 Pt. Program"
Infesticons w/ Saul Williams "Monkey Theme"
Wu-Tang Clan "Uzi (Pinky Ring)"
Jay-Z "Izzo (H.O.V.A.)"
The Roots w/ Common "The Love of My Life"
Deltron 3030 "Things You Can Do"
De La Soul "Itsoweezee"
Big L "Ebonics"
Anti-Pop Consortium "Clonemen"
Kool G Rap w/ Large Professor and Freddie Foxx "Money in the Bank"
MC Paul Barman "The Joy of Your World"
Mr. Len and Jean Grae "The Hurt"
N.O.R.E. "Grimey"
Ice Cube "It Was A Good Day (remix)"
Beastie Boys "Get It Together"
Eminem "Without Me"

Black Star "Definition"
Non Phixion "The CIA Is Trying To Kill Me"
Thirstin Howl III "The Polo Rican"
Public Enemy "Night of the Living Baseheads"
Aesop Rock "Daylight"
Mr. Lif "Cromagnon"
Method Man and Redman "Checka"
Puffy w/ Lil Kim, Biggie, and the Lox "It's All About The Benjamins"
Grand Puba "Issues"
Sadat X "X-Man"
EPMD "You Gots To Chill"
Princess Superstar w/ Kool Keith "Keith N' Me"
The Pharcyde "Drop"
Jurassic 5 "Verbal Gunfight"
High and Mighty "B Boy Document"
2Pac "Dear Mama"
Ghostface Killah "Child's Play"
Gang Starr "Ex Girl to the Next Girl"
Blackalicious "Swan Lake"
 
 
Seth
15:30 / 08.05.02
My only coment is to switch "The Fire in Which You Burn" to "Patriotism" (for some of the greatest protest lyrics ever penned) or "End to End Burners" (cos it rocks. In fact both those tunes fly in the face of the no groove/no flow theory). Or maybe even their remix of Mike Ladd's "Bladerunners." I love "TFIWYB," but it's much more of a slowburner, and more likely to divide the listener.
 
 
pointless and uncalled for
16:50 / 08.05.02
My reccomendation, having been through a similar phase, would be to wander into a music store with a large selection of hip hop, prefferably one which has a selection of genres and weighted towards vinyl shifters than discfolk and get them to set you up at a listening post.

This way you can go through some styles and ask for different characteristics in what you are listening to. This way you can find something that suits your existing tastes and caters to your desires.

In general rap music artisits tend to run in circles, cliques and collectives. If you find an artist that you like then it's always worth checking for work by contributors as well. There's a godd chance that you will like it.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
23:15 / 08.05.02
"The Fire In Which You Burn" is there because it's the only Company Flow song that I think is exceptional. The rest all range from 'not-very-good' to 'alright, okay' to me...
 
 
The Natural Way
08:19 / 09.05.02
Oh, actually I quite enjoy some of instrumental stuff on 'Little Johnny From The Hospital'. Just think it grooves, and was a nice antidote to all that Ninjatune/MoWax tripshit at the time.
 
 
Axel Lambert
16:29 / 09.05.02
Anti-pop consortium!
 
 
Seth
16:34 / 09.05.02
Flux - we'll have to agree to disagree on that score.

"Little Johnny" does indeed rule with fists of steel. It's got some awesome tunes, and never fails to raise a smile. Good vibe record, with some wicked ideas on the production side.

Anti-pop have done some great tunes, but they're about half and half quality-wise. I'd only recommend them as worthy of downloading selected recommendations from their back catalogue.
 
  

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