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May Day"

04:16 / 04.05.02

Hi I'm Lentil's friend and these are mine, not his opinion.
I went to work in Euston on May Day. I decided during the lunch break to go and see a what was going on at Oxford St ... nothing.
But the point I want to make is about the reaction of my colleagues (who are all underpaid civil servants) to me going down there. I was told I was "visiting a no go area" full of "anarchist louts."
I support many of the sentiments behind the "anti-capitalist movement", but in my experience most people I meet are very conservative and "like" the current system. Witness the recent opinion polls which show enormous support for capitalism and the monarchy etc.
My view is that society cannot change until we change minds. Obviously this will be very difficult given who controls our access to information. BUT IF WE CAN'T NOTHING CAN CHANGE ... what does everyone else think, how do we go about it? Cheers, MM p.s please can I join?!

08:56 / 04.05.02

If you can get Lentil to vouch for you via a private message, then of COURSE you can join. We'd love to have you around. As to the rest of your post, I don't know what to think about issues like this at the moment - 9/11 threw a lot of people's liberal agendas and anti-global capitalist believes way out of the centre-ground of politics, which now seems occupied by fairly pro-active and aggressive 'make the world safe for western capitalism' style aggression. I know exactly what you mean though - in my office too there was a fair amount of 'yeah well, but it's when they start burning cars that you see their true colours' statements too - and I work at the BBC...

Morlock - groupie for hire

07:46 / 06.05.02

Have to find a way to stop the fringe loonies and assorted idiots from seeing the whole thing as an excuse to pick a fight, first. God knows how, though, in what is supposed to be a free-for-all demo. Not to mention one that (not entirely without reason) sees any kind of law-enforcement as a prelude to state-sponsored thuggery like last year.

08:47 / 06.05.02

I'm going to start a thread about this someday in Headshop, it's been on my mind in a variety of contexts lately.

The thing is that I don't think this model of a demonstration - that we go out there with our banners and some "unconverted" people see it and change their minds, until gradually everyone has their consciousness raised and the world becomes a better place - is the right one to work with. Part of the point of the May Day protests is precisely to preach to the converted - to bring together a lot of semi-like-minded people in a *very* loose, cyborgian coalition, so that we can all feed off each other's energies and create a sort of baby-universe in which our dreams for the future are respected and, in a very limited way and for a very limited time, almost-realized.

There's also a sense in which demos/protests are the domestic labour of the revolution: not so much about producing anything tangible like a changed mind, but (a) if no-one showed up on May Day, the pro-capitalist media would be like "Ha! See, everyone's happy! There's nothing wrong!" and (b) we have to continuously maintain a semi-imaginary space in which our dreams and energy can flourish in an atmosphere of mutual support and respect.

Okay, I sound like a filthy hippy, and I do think that there are other effects that the protests can have, but I *don't* think that just because (to take an extreme view, and not to get at lentil's friend or anyone else) the president of MacDonald's doesn't slap his forehead and cry "Of course! Kitten placards! I'll dismantle my empire and build a network of small Fair Trade outlets instead!", we should think of protests as non-productive. They're just not productive in a simple or predictable or classic way.

08:50 / 06.05.02

Oh, except that, as morlock points out, they do predictably produce a high level of state policing/violence/ order-restoring, and that's something that needs thinking about since in some ways large-scale protests are seen as legitimating higher levels of state surveillance/violence/etc.

Regrettable Juvenilia

17:43 / 06.05.02

There's also a sense in which demos/protests are the domestic labour of the revolution: not so much about producing anything tangible like a changed mind, but (a) if no-one showed up on May Day, the pro-capitalist media would be like "Ha! See, everyone's happy! There's nothing wrong!" and (b) we have to continuously maintain a semi-imaginary space in which our dreams and energy can flourish in an atmosphere of mutual support and respect.

Okay, I sound like a filthy hippy, and I do think that there are other effects that the protests can have, but I *don't* think that just because (to take an extreme view, and not to get at lentil's friend or anyone else) the president of MacDonald's doesn't slap his forehead and cry "Of course! Kitten placards! I'll dismantle my empire and build a network of small Fair Trade outlets instead!", we should think of protests as non-productive. They're just not productive in a simple or predictable or classic way.

Y'know, just when I'm thinking of moving out of here for good...

Very, very well put. I'll have to steal and internalise this for the next time someone says "but what do you think this is going to ACHIEVE?"

08:11 / 07.05.02

It's actually me this time...

"since in some ways large-scale protests are seen as legitimating higher levels of state surveillance/violence/etc."

Which cuts both ways; the "fringe loonies and assorted idiots" (c/o Morlock) who are more likely to engage in "spiky" activities are likely to see violent or antisocial protest as being legitimised by overenthusiastic policing/ control. At the extreme end of either spectrum you have a fairly rigid mindset which pounces on the worst aspects of what they disagree with as justifying their own unwillingness to understand the opposing viewpoint. I'm inclined to think that the onus is on us not to provide any excuses to dismiss anticapitalist or revolutionary thought, as we're ultimately trying to change minds and the dominant ideology simply needs to keep them thinking the way they are. Tom's point that "9/11 threw a lot of people's liberal agendas and anti-global capitalist beliefs way out of the centre-ground of politics" increases this responsibility. But then, if we become so hung up on being presentable, what happens when the actual content of our message is beyond the pale? For a lot of people, the suggestion "dismantle global capitalism" would be extreme if delivered by a man called Brad Holsome in a pinstriped suit. (actually, wasn't someone in the "How was Mayday for you?" suggesting suits for the next demo? bon idee!)
I am, however, more hopeful than I probably sound, and believe in the genuine validity of what Deva succinctly calls "a semi-imaginary space in which our dreams and energy can flourish in an atmosphere of mutual support and respect". It's like a pyschic incubator. Seeing that people have similar opinions and are prepared to go out and express them helps concrete your own and retain enthusiasm for the next time.

The Natural Way

08:24 / 07.05.02

Deva, you don't sound like a hippy at all.