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quote:Originally posted by Jack Fear:
Ah, yes, Indonesia. The world's largest and most populous Muslim nation, IIRC. Hmmm. And yet, the last I heard, Indonesia is not overrun with suicide bombers--even though "Islam breeds suicide bombers."
Nor, AFAIK, have there been massive protests in Indonesia over US occupation of Saudi Arabia--even though, as we've been told, that occupation is prime motivator for Muslims hating the US.
You here misrepresent two statements I made:
one, "Islam breeds suicide bombers." What I had said was "Fundamentalist Islam breeds suicide bombers like Capitalism breeds stockbrokers." First, you broaden my admittedly not-so-precise 'Fundamentalist Islam' to just plain 'Islam'. Not my intention whatsover. Second, you take the sentence out of the context, the context being that each and every -ism is capable of spawning its own demons, in the case of Islam the suicide bomber; capitalism, the stockbroker. (which, was supposed to symbolize capitalism gone amok. it may not do so, but I never let over-accuracy get in the way of a pithy quote. Maybe "landlord" or "middle manager" is more appropos.) Both are logical end products of the rhetoric of each -ism taken to extreme.
Listen, I saw footage on 60 Minutes of a Palestinian mosque where the priest was extolling the glories of martyrhood, including those 70 virgins. I'm sure that doesn't happen in 95 percent of the Mosques around the world, but it happens as surely as some fundy Xtian types say God wants fags dead.
It is easy and acceptable in this forum to condemn Christianity on this type of basis; no one would blink an eye if you did. Why can't we call some strains of Islam on their bullshit too?
The second misrepresentation you made saying that US occupation of Saudi Arabia is a prime cause of Muslim hatred of the US. I said no such thing. I said it was a prime cause of Osama bin Laden's hatred of the US, and that prime cause is directly related to his faith. Different.
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Nor are such things endemic to sub-Saharan Africa, which is also overwhelmingly Muslim.
What you do see, however--in Africa and in Indonesia--is all manner of Muslim-on-Muslim violence, motivated by politics, territory, and ethnicity. Curious, that.
I'm in the middle of reading a book about the US army actions in Somolia in the early 90s, so when I finish I will address this further. Incidentally, the two unifying factors of the clans were their veneration of Islam and their hatred of the UN/US.
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And on the other side, the alleged Islamists of the al-Quaida organization have been deafeningly silent regarding oppressive government policies in Indonesia--which suggests that they don't give a shit about Indonesia. Which is odd, you know, since al-Quaida are (as we've been told) primarily motivated by the tenets of Islam... and Indonesia is, IIRC, the largest and most populous Muslim nation in the world. Doubly curious.
from reuters:
quote:Saudi-born militant Osama bin Laden had at least 55 bases or offices inAfghanistan earlier this year with over 13,000 men, ranging from Arabs and Pakistanis to Chechens and Filipinos,according to Russian information.
Certainly seems like an international rather than "ethnic" situation then you imply, Jack.
I think that Fiction Suit Five said it best when he/she said that the events of the last few weeks have shaken up his/her sociopolitical assumptions. Reflexive, marxian-based solution don't jibe with what we're hearing and seeing. while I certainly wouldn't advocate demonizing religion as the answer, maybe it is time to re-examine some of the leftist, liberal assumptions many of us have been operating under. A little house-cleaning and inventory taking is positive, isn't it?
[ 27-09-2001: Message edited by: todd ] |
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