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VOTE YOU BASTARDS

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We're The Great Old Ones Now

14:25 / 02.05.02

I don't care if you are still sore from the May Day Protests. Get out there and tick the damn box.

The end.

14:33 / 02.05.02

simple question- Why?

14:39 / 02.05.02

I watched Mark Thomas last night and he advised us that we should stay at home and not vote - I think he meant in general and not just today. I also read an artcle yesterday about a BNP candidate and how he want to make the UK racially pure.

If all the people who were left wing anarchists really stood together for once and refused to vote, what would happen? All the people that did vote, would be right wing, uninterested in human rights and social justice. People say that all politicians are the same - I just don't believe it. Some are much worse.

We're The Great Old Ones Now

14:52 / 02.05.02

WHY? Because the Conservative Party have been on my phone twice today, making sure I get out there and vote, and no one else has. Because it is your responsibility, not some damn privilege you can ignore. Because we spend enough time complaining that the world isn't right that it would be bloody shameful if we didn't do the single simple thing which registers our political desires.

And because, frankly, even if it does nothing, better to have tried.

Jesus. I expect this conversation in the pub, not here.

gozer the destructor

15:15 / 02.05.02

Don't Vote

Elijah, Freelance Rabbi

15:29 / 02.05.02

i have yet to hear a good reason why anyone SHOULDNT vote
I mean, come one, if all those dumb ass "anarchists" had gotton off their asses than we wouldnt have GW Bush as prez

solid~liquid onwards

16:04 / 02.05.02

im sorry, but i have to agree with pro voters, less anyone has a really good argument not too

there are parties that cater for most peoples wish's or at least lean you way.

if all ya new agers, anarchists and various other lefty type denominations voted in the european elections (cos no-one else did) then you could have had the greens in, or even those ones (i cant quite remember) that were all to do with energy points and stuff.

in Oz you get a fine for not voting, anyone reckon that should be done here, or is it our right to choose?

Tuna Ghost: Pratt knot hero

16:44 / 02.05.02

Because we spend enough time complaining that the world isn't right that it would be bloody shameful if we didn't do the single simple thing which registers our political desires.

And because, frankly, even if it does nothing, better to have tried.

So it's the old "No vote, no right to complain" deal?

Nah, I'm just kidding. I know you don't mean anything that silly. And I understand what you mean by it being bloody shameful if nobody got out and tried to change things, when given a relatively simple way to do it. But dig this, cat. It has been made painfully clear to me that no politician has any interest in what I think is important. No elected offcial represents me well enough for me to think "this guy is different, he's got the goods. Get him into office!" And if I don't like any of the choices, what to do then? What does a Discordian do in this situation? I'm not just trying to get rid of government altogether, I'm trying to make it clear to everyone that we don't need it, and if we don't like it we can make it go away. How does voting further this cause?

17:05 / 02.05.02

Vote you English bastards, shurely?

I'm not voting today, but I completely agree with Nick...

17:33 / 02.05.02

Well I'm off round to vote in a few minutes, mainly because it is me doing something about deciding what governemnt I'm under, a very small something yeah but its still a small endorsement or fuck-you to whoever you vote for or against.
To be honest as I'm voting lib dem in as solidly labour borough as you can get it is slightly pointless, but fuck it its not that much effort to go and put a tick in a box.
And if you want to vote discordian, pick a box at random, spoil your vote creatively, vote loony, vote weird independent, just get off your arse, it might be nice for the looneys not to lose their deposite this year and imagine how suprised they'll be if they win, its happened before.
And finally it'll be easier on my feet than walking round bloody mayfair :-)

18:36 / 02.05.02

Yeah, I voted. I feel mildly guilty because, solid Labour as I am, I voted green and Lib Dem just in the hope of saying WTF are you doing, Blair?
Especially for women, to not vote just makes me furious. So you think your vote won't make a difference? Just look at France for what happens when everyone but the extremists gives up and stays at home.

Tuna Ghost: Pratt knot hero

18:51 / 02.05.02

Or look at the U.S., where the popular vote didn't mean jack shit in the last presidential election.

19:00 / 02.05.02

Of course, everybody knew beforehand that it was the electoral votes that counted.

19:49 / 02.05.02

i didn't have the opportunity to vote, on account of my current location (i live north of the border) but in general, i hate the idea of voting, and will continue to hate it until i see on the bllot papers, under the 'Labour' box, and the 'Conservatice' box, and the 'Liberal Democrat' box, a little box labelled 'total anarchy'. personally, i reckon our country would be much more interesting if it wasn't run so damn incompetently. Right now, when i look at the parties we can choose from, i don't see anything that makes me *want* to go down to the polling station. Our current government isn't really up to scratch, but i honestly don't believe that any of the other ones could do much better.

19:51 / 02.05.02

well i don't have a choice in whether to vote or not because i keep moving and don't have a chance to register. although when i did stay in one place for a while, my local council were incapable of getting a register together. i think a lot of people are in this position, mainly in intransient big cities.

the last time i did get to vote in local elections, i voted green. same as i would've done this time had i been registered.

19:53 / 02.05.02

i should've added - my sister 'voted' today - the choice was between a tory and an independent, so she voted 'none of the above'. because it wasn't a choice. and i think actively disagreeing with all the candidates should be an option that's counted.

Pemulis / Dee Vapr / Hungrygho

20:27 / 02.05.02

I dunno. I have deep reservations w/r/t the representative nature of our partisan electoral system, where parties who flagrantly use issue politics to win votes then gain a mandate from a voting mass to pursue a whole set of policies that are starkly in contrast to personal beliefs or the aggregate opinions of the electorate, if you see what I mean (erm..)

Bar making parties accountable for gross ineptitude, I can't see how voting makes a blind bit of difference in the U.K. anyway, the three major parties have now acheived such a remarkable consensus over the last five years...

I say that making a protest of not voting because you disagree with the system has equal if not greater moral weight than casting a vote that means so little...

solid~liquid onwards

20:57 / 02.05.02

ooooo

i still beleive its best to vote...when ppl stop caring about polotics bad things happen and go unnoticed b the general public.

in scotland the majority of MSP's voted themselves a substantial pay increase (i think they all get half their pay for life when they retire too) no-one batted an eyelid over here about it.

Most of the people on these forums are generally slightly more extremist in one way or another, politically, and the reason there isnt really a party that clearly represents your beleifs or aims is because it wouldnt beable to gain enough mainstream support, and im sure that you all couldnt agree on a good system of government or the specifications for a party to represent your views.

i reckon the current system, is a good compromise. you can pretty much do what you want in this country within reason...well actually you cant, but with lobbying and having your voice heard, you can change things. A lot of you anarchisty people dislike the police and such, but if your house got burnt down by a bunch of horid little adolesants, what would you do? (i can second guess what manga would do, and it probably involves several firebombs and the perpetrators face)

in short, we should take an active role in things to slowly change what is in place to make it better suiteed to the times, and i beleive that voting is an integral part of that :P

i would like to hear any alternatives to our current system of government if you got em... please feel free to rip my argument to shreds, as id rather be wrong than ignorant :P

The Return Of Rothkoid

21:55 / 02.05.02

And if I don't like any of the choices, what to do then? What does a Discordian do in this situation?
Go to the polling office. Despoil your ballot paper. Write YOU ARE ALL UNSUITABLE CANDIDATES, AND I CHOOSE NOT TO REGISTER A VOTE FOR ANY OF YOU AS A PROTEST on your sheet. If everyone was fucked off enough to do that if they really didn't want to choose any of the options available, it might change something. Better than being mute and complaining afterwards, I guess.

23:22 / 02.05.02

As soon as you do *anything* on a ballot that is not adding the correct number of crosses to the given boxes then it is regarded as a spoilt ballot.

That is it.

It does not matter if you wrot the most elloquent exposition of the flaws of the current voting system or simply wrote 'you smell of poo' on it. It is just a spoilt ballot and will be cast aside.

Its probably massive politial naievity but I am beginning to entertain the idea that an extremist government being elected in by the (very) small percentage of the population that voted might actually precipitatesome kind of revolutionary action on the part of the average bloke in the street - something that would seriously shake the status quo in a way that the current voting system does not.

Tell me why I am wrong. Convince me why i should vote next time, because i am beginning to loose my faith in the current political system.

Tuna Ghost: Pratt knot hero

23:40 / 02.05.02

If everyone was fucked off enough to do that if they really didn't want to choose any of the options available, it might change something. Better than being mute and complaining afterwards, I guess.

Who said anything about being mute? We're talking about voting here.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

07:13 / 03.05.02

I've always been in the "not voting" camp until fairly recently- unfortunately, this means I was unregistered. I wish I could have voted yesterday. But I fucked up. Although I did encourage a friend of mine who was registered but said he probably couldn't be arsed that he should. And HE did. Not sure what I'm saying here, really.

We're The Great Old Ones Now

08:15 / 03.05.02

Sleaze - new thread in the Headshop.

Trouble with your proposed situation is that you still have a sizeable group who actually voted in the extreme government and will fight (possibly literally) for its cause. Historically, such situations lead to civil war, especially in the absence of a strong alternative candidate and ideology. And the keyword is 'strong'. Simple, easily understood, clear enemy...a recipe for another extreme group, not a liberal revolution.

But let's tootle on over the HS and really get political.

Regrettable Juvenilia

16:56 / 03.05.02

Nick, do you really believe that voting is "the single simple thing which registers our political desires"?

Our Lady of The Two Towers

17:10 / 03.05.02

Right, having spent 13 fucking hours manning a polling station in north London yesterday, everyone that had the opportunity to vote in the UK and didn't can line up so I can give them a big old kick up the arse.

17:15 / 03.05.02

lada - why kick them up the arse? for many people, the options they have are no options at all.

solid~liquid onwards

18:49 / 03.05.02

3 extra BNP's and a dude in a monkey suit got elected.

they each have budgets of millions and a salary of £50,000, of your money ...wonder what their doing with it right now?

(please dont shout at me, but) by not voting, you are supporting these people, paying their salary giving them their money to spend on their agenda. So what, its not perfect, but nothing is.

solid~liquid onwards

18:55 / 03.05.02

"lada - why kick them up the arse? for many people, the options they have are no options at all."

god, their are so many people here with their own idea of how things should be done, it would be infesable to create a party to represent them. To win any votes it would have to become just like whats already in place.

with a little research you would see where parties stand on some issues that are important to you. beleive in relaxed drug laws, vote liberal, decreased taxes and public spending, vote conservative, mabye your a bit of a socialist, so you might as well support blairs feasable demi socailism.

Tuna Ghost: Pratt knot hero

19:44 / 03.05.02

I have a response to this, but it'll be in the other thread in the Headshop.

We're The Great Old Ones Now

13:39 / 08.05.02

Flyboy:

Nick, do you really believe that voting is "the single simple thing which registers our political desires"?

Yup. For many people it's the only time they ever think about politics. It's the easiest means of registering an approximation of what you want, even if the nearest you can actually get is a choice between Chirac and Le Pen.

Tryphena Absent

14:09 / 08.05.02

Everytime I vote I do it tactically... I'm registered to vote in Hertfordshire, not Cardiff where I live most of the year because it's not my permanent address. I missed the local council elections but I'm not bothered because the lib dems always get in to the council where I am. I do not like the lib dems, I do not like labour... I vote because I like the tories less and I wish to be a part of the EU and I think there's even less chance of that under a Conservative government.
There is no party to vote for which I actually approve of, the greens don't stand where I live because the same Tory MP gets elected everytime, to tell the truth I don't want them in government anyway. I've come to the point where I don't want any of them in charge of this country and feel I have no welcome options and I've only been able to vote for the last two years.
Why do I always vote disregarding what I've said above... when I was 13 my best friend's mum was an avid conservative, she told me that I should always always vote and that was because democracy relied on people's willingness to be part of the system. While I'm not willing to be part of capitalism I accept that I have to stop people like her from running this country. The only way to do this is by voting for the option that she wouldn't go for and unfortunately that's one of three major shit political parties.

Our Lady of The Two Towers

17:27 / 08.05.02

Maybe I'm being hopelessly optimistic, but I think a spoiled ballot paper sends more of a message to our leaders than not voting. I think a mass campaign of spoiled ballots, especially if they had something like a new box created which is marked 'none of these dishonest fuckers' may eventually have an effect. Apathy is what they want.

We're The Great Old Ones Now

17:30 / 08.05.02

That may be true, but it lacks punch. If a specific percentage of ballots spoiled meant a new election, that would be another thing, but absent that, I fear it's just a rather idealistic gesture of disapproval.

solid~liquid onwards

17:57 / 08.05.02

heh, it would probably take just as much effort to organise enough people to spoil their ballot papers as it would to set up a new party :P

Our Lady of The Two Towers

19:41 / 08.05.02

Yeah, prolly, but I just think that if we were able to get the message round, like with the 'Jedi' meme in the census, and then get it announced in the media that people were going to spoilt their ballot papers in a specific way, then perhaps the counters would look out for it when counting, and it might get noticed.

Ho hum. Maybe not...

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