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Symbolic Magick

22:41 / 30.04.02

I'm not sure if symbolic magick is quite the term I'm looking for here, but it'll do I suppose.

Ok, so I've been brushing up on my norse mythology (gotta love that Odin guy). Anyway, as we all know Odin gives up an eye for knowledge and hangs himself from the world tree to gain knowledge of the runes.

Would it be possible to do something like this symbolically? You know, maybe make a symbolic representation of an eye and give this representation up to gain knowledge of "something". I suppose that "something" would have to be referred to in the ritual.

22:44 / 30.04.02

It is all about sacrifice...give and take...if you are sincere, you should be willing to show you mean business...i' dont believe a fake eye would cut it...but as for tying yourself to a tree....

23:36 / 30.04.02

Or how about an Eye-patch... for a period of time, or even a blind fold.

This would function in a similar manor would it not... then you can set out to find or "see" this new learning durring that time...

05:03 / 01.05.02

I recommend both the fake eye as a sacrifice and an eyepatch. Also, while you're hanging from a tree, try to convince yourself you can feel pain in your eye. Tell yourself until you can feel the pain, but after you have finished this ritual, you probably want to go to quite a lot of trouble undoing this process. Don't take back the eye, but tell yourself the pain has gone away and your vision is full.

Use peeled grapes with some fake blood for the eye. And cast it into fire, or water or something. I don't know what Odin did, so maybe you should mimick that.

10:19 / 01.05.02

I was going to hold off on the whole hanging from a tree thing, seeing as how there aren't exactly any trees around here that could hold my weight. The only ones I would have access to that could hold my weight are the ones in the state park. I can just imagine the trouble I'd have explaining this to people.

"Mommy! Mommy! Why is that man hanging from that tree!"
"Don't worry about it Billy. Just walk away slowly and the crazy man won't see you"

As for the whole eye deal, Odin gave Mimir one of his eyes so he could drink from the well of knowledge. So I suppose tossing the fake eye into a body of water could work.

14:33 / 01.05.02

Its the Law of Sympathy: That which seems alike, is alike.

In use, you ritually craft an item to represent your eye. Invest within this item your belief that this is your eye. Perhaps use eyelashes in its making, wet it with your tears, making use of the Law of Contagion. Blood is always good, especially if you are dealing with the Norse

Preform a ritual to make it so, and "activate" it as a magickal talisman representing your eye. I reccomend as a part of the ritual closing the eye in question, pressing it to your socket, and pulling it out as if you were removing your actual eye. Leave your real eye closed for the duration of this working for best effect, possibly using an eye patch.

Now, imagine that you can see through the talismantic eye. Toss it into a well, and subject yourself to as deep a trance as you can manage to gain visions of the underworld.

The Hermetic says, "there are laws that govern magic."
The Chaos Magickian says, "interpret these in whatever way makes sense to you."

14:38 / 01.05.02

The idea of hanging from a tree is a technbique used in rebirthing rituals and initiations. The symbolic nature of Odin's sacrifice is that of rebirth, which was once a common element of traditional rites of passage. This has since been replaced by Driving licences and rits to alcohol consumption. I suggest that you do not attempt this alone, for safety and security reasons, but find a sympathetic Chaos or Magick circle, to assist in this ritual. I you are concerened about the size of tree, one could always substitute this for a pair of 'anti-gravity' boots, thoses devices that allow people to hang upside down to exercise.
As for the business with the eye, I suggest moon worship, as in some traditions, the lost eye of Odin, became the moon.

By teh way, this is a great project, and I wish you much luck in your completion of it. Please keep us posted with your efforts.

solid~liquid onwards

16:14 / 01.05.02

what way ya gonna hang?

all this talk of eyes has got me thinking of the brahan seer...a dude who predicted the future around where i live, and was born in...theres some debate about when he was put to death (1577) hE WAS PUT IN A VAT OF BOILING OIL, HALF A MILE FROM MY SCHOOL...the caps werent deliberate. He got his ability to see the future when he looked through a stone with a round hole in it. which made him blind in that eye, and he was always .....www.legenca.freeserve.co.uk/seer/brahan.html ...just found this, seems quite a descent site.

18:24 / 01.05.02

(Complete aside: the stuff in this thread about hanging from trees has given me a really interesting new angle on some recent dreamwork. Many thanks for the additional info)

19:14 / 01.05.02

non-magick-user question, and this is intended to be serious, and not a stab at the fine folks in the forum:

who are you fooling with the fake eye? i would imagine that the magickal entity/force/what-have-you would know it wasn't a true sacrifice, and act accordingly. and if i was a powerful entity, and someone tried to pull a fake sacrifice on me, i'd send 'em some bad mojo.

i don't want to bring this thread down, but i'm trying to better understand this stuff and this is the type of question that actually pops into my head.

20:42 / 01.05.02

Very good question, Utopia. It comes to a difference of opinion on exactly what you are doing, I think. If you view the process as an internal change that allows you access to energies, then the symbolic is sufficient as all you need is a strong enough focus. If you are interacting with an external entity, they might require you to do it for real. Then again, if you do it with a serious mind and respect for the process, it is unlikely you will get any bad mojo from it. The trick from such workings is to believe in the reality of what you are representing strong enough that it is real, for the duration of the working. If there are spooky mystical forces to be invoked from doing this, you'll have worked them.

But you're right about there being no substitute for the real thing. A symbolic working will give the same effect, but its power will be dependent on the strength of your conviction to it. The most powerful focus is the physical, and to effect a permanent change, a permanent change as sacrifice will always be the best you can offer.

Nietzsch E. Coyote

20:50 / 01.05.02

Well first off, Utopia, the gods can be fooled. The Mythologies of most cultures include a tale about how the gods were fooled about a sacrifice. In Greek Myths Zeus is tricked into accepting the fat entrails of the cow rather than the meat. Ever since humans eat the meat and give Zeus the stuff they don't want.

Secondly, When you have "charged" something to symbolically represent something its sacrifice will acheive a similar, if lesser, result. Giving up the use of the eye for a time in addition to the symbolic replacement should make the sacrifice even more effective.