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(gorgeous) jorge luis borges

 
 
kid coagulant
13:28 / 30.04.02
Picked up Borges’ ‘Labyrinths’ today and read the first story, ‘Tlon, Uqbar, Orbis Tertius’. It made me think of Umberto Eco’s ‘Foucault’s Pendulum’, Grant Morrison’s ‘Doom Patrol’ run (particularly the ‘crawling from the wreckage/orqwith city of bone’ storyline), Nabokov’s ‘Pale Fire’, Stanislaw Lem’s ‘Solaris’ (all of the ‘solaristics’ stuff is pretty similar to Borges’ ‘tlonistas’ stuff), and Flann O’Brien’s ‘3rd Policeman’ (especially all of the deSelby commentary). All of these books/stories are about or reference false histories/realities.

Now, aside from Morrison and probably Eco, it looks like Borges, Nabokov, Lem, and O’Brien are all more or less contemporaries. What I’m wondering is did they read each other’s work, did one influence the others, or if there’s someone I’m missing here who may have had an influence on each of them (like say maybe Kafka). Are there any uberbook geeks out there who know when all of these books were translated (if necessary) into English, or if there were translations circulated prior to the publication of their official English translations? More specifically for Borges and Lem, as their works were originally written in Spanish and Polish, respectively. After some poking around, it looks like ‘solaris’ was published in 1961, ‘tlon, uqbar, orbis tertius’ in 1956, ‘pale fire’ in I think 1962, and ‘3rd policeman’ in 1967. So did these people influence each other or are they just similar types of writers or what?

Interesting to note that except for Morrison and O’Brien (who himself was steeped in Gaelic), none of these writers' first language is English. Not sure what I’m trying to get at here…
 
 
Kit-Cat Club
13:48 / 30.04.02
I don't know offhand when Borges was translated, but I can tell you that 'Tlon, Uqbar, Orbis Tertius' was published in Spanish in 'The Garden of Forking Paths' in the early 1940s, and so is much older than the others. However I think the first translation which appeared in a book may have been the one in 'Labyrinths' in... the 1960s. I think.

Borges is definitely an influence on Eco - I've just read Foucault's Pendulum and he uses a quotation from Borges as an epigraph. I'd say that Eco is more of an influence on Morrison (well, on the 'Invisibles' run at any rate) than Borges is.

I tend to regard O'Brien as something of an outsider in the company you suggest, though now you mention it there is a connection; I suspect it is a hangover from the Modernist project rather than a specific bond between these writers.

This is a good resource on Borges and may be some help with bibliographic stuff:
Garden of Forking Paths
 
 
Jack Fear
13:52 / 30.04.02
Much of it comes from Kafka, yeah--but the 1960s in general were a great time for experimental fiction: new theories of literary criticism were flying, and postmodernism was presenting new ways of making and understanding stories. It's no accident that many of these writers came out of academic backgrounds (Eco, Borges, Nabokov, Italo Calvino, Milorad Pavic).

In fact, a common criticism is that these guys only started writing these elaborate metafictions as a excuse to show off their own awesome learnedness. And it's true that they tend to be emotionally chilly--far more interested in ideas than in such things as character which were valued by the old breed of fiction.
 
 
Kit-Cat Club
14:02 / 30.04.02
they tend to be emotionally chilly--far more interested in ideas than in such things as character which were valued by the old breed of fiction

Ah, that's why I like them so much then...

Another thing - Borges had an unusual taste for certain English authors - Conan Doyle, and especially G. K. Chesterton - I think Chesterton may have been a very significant influence on him. I remember reading something by Alberto Manguel in which Manguel describes going round to Borges' house (Borges was by this time blind) and reading out book after book while Borges commented at length on each page.

I think Borges probably counts as being slightly earlier than the 1960s experimental fictions (and I think O'Brien may have been too), but that's just a quibble.
 
 
Ethan Hawke
14:07 / 30.04.02
Eco pays homage to Borges in The Name of the Rose via his blind librarian monk (Jorge of Bruges IIRC) and the setting of the Library.

I believe Nabakov snidely references "The Garden of Forking Paths" in Ada or Ardor but I misremember if the allusion was as nasty and dismissive as I think it was. I suspect so, as Nabakov had few words of praise for contemporaries.
 
 
grant
15:47 / 30.04.02
Can't underestimate Poe and his "discovered manuscripts" and semi-fictional essays (like "Imp of the Perverse"), halfway between criticism and short story.

Borges was a huge Poe fan, and I know Poe was big in Europe too. The pseudo-academic style probably owes a lot to him.
 
 
kid coagulant
16:49 / 30.04.02
Poe makes sense. I shold read 'The Narrative of Arthur Gordon Pym' again. Which brings us to Lovecraft, 'Mountains of Madness', Miskatonic University, and so forth...
 
 
alas
17:23 / 30.04.02
yes, dilettantism, I was just going to make the same point about Eco's blind librarian. But, considering the librarian is the really evil character in the novel, it's also a rather back handed "homage", no?
heh heh.
 
 
Mystery Gypt
19:01 / 30.04.02
as far as the morrison influence bit... you got it backwards. i think this came up in another thread; doom patrol is often a flat out fucking homage to borges... he talks about it here
 
 
Kit-Cat Club
07:43 / 01.05.02
Fair enough; I don't know much about Morrison.
 
 
Baz Auckland
14:56 / 01.05.02
I finished the Collected Fictions of Borges last month (I dragged it out over half a year so I wouldnt read it all at once and have no more Borges), and he devotes stories to Raymond Chandler, and he also does a great 'in tribute to HP Lovecraft' as well.

I got hooked on him after reading Ficciones (which contains the Labyrinths and Garden of Forking Paths), and aside from a lot of the stories set amongst the gauchos of western Argentina, he has some great tales.
 
  
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