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"Audition": more than we could handle. (SPOILERS)

 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
21:19 / 28.04.02
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Myself and Lurid just had to stop watching a video before the end, overwhelmed- perhaps for the first time- by the intensity, the grotesqueness, of the film.

This is not to say that Audition is a bad film. The basic premise is simple: middle-aged widower Aoyama has decided to remarry, and he and his producer friend connive to set up a bogus audition, ostensibly for a new film but really to find Aoyama his perfect wife. He swiftly becomes infatuated with the beautiful and enigmatic Asami.

The first hour is slow but intriguing. The viewer is made to feel uncomfortable with Aoyama's underhandedness and casual sexism, yet can't dislike him. We view his growing attatchment to Asami with sympathatic cynicsm: surely this pretty, talented woman, some years his junior, is a gold-digger or otherwise untrustworthy; surely he is bound to be humiliated and abandoned by the end of the film?

As the story progresses, however, it becomes plain that abandonment would be the best thing he could hope for.

The themes of the film are familiar: obsession, abuse, a corrupted and terrible travesty of love- are familiar from other films. They have seldom been better conveyed than in this well-crafted and compulsive piece. The dream sequences and memory flashbacks, where we are unable to tell memory from reality from fantasy, are used to powerful effect.

Like I said, myself and Lurid had to stop the damn tape before the end; without wanting to give too much away, it proved too sickening, both psychologically and physically, to bear at one sitting.

We'll get back to you when the room stops spinning.
 
 
Ria
21:50 / 28.04.02
there there Lurid, Mordant...

I would not claim that no part of the film did not affect me it did not have that effect on me. the protagonist acted dumb in a typical horror movie way. I could not believe in anybody acting the way the murderess did.

perhaps because the program of the local theatre put together a sypnosis helpfully giving away at least half the plot. and having seen the still of the murderess with the syringe that did not leave too many surprises for me to discover.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
21:57 / 28.04.02
I have to admit, even a gore-loving buffoon like myself spent most of the second half of this movie with my hands literally over my face (which I've never done in my life before) and me and a friend both shouting "no, don't do that... that's really nasty". I'd just bought the DVD, not having seen it before. This was about four months ago, and I still haven't managed to bring myself to watch the extra scenes yet.
Very good film, though. Probably not something I'll be watching regularly.
 
 
Seth
05:45 / 29.04.02
It is a really beautiful film, but very hard to watch. It's an extraordinarily powerful commentary on loneliness, which is why I think Asami's actions are justified (not as commendable actions towards another human being of course, but within the context of the narrative).

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Does anyone know any of the history of those forms of torture? The removal of the feet has obvious meaning symbolically (and is comented on at length in the movie), but what about the needles under the ribs and eyes? I wouldn't be at all surprised if there were a lot of subtext to these scenes that non-torturers might miss out on.

Man, they knew their demographic...
 
 
rizla mission
09:19 / 29.04.02
Considering it's reputation, I found the ending of Audition a little, well, un-disturbing. ("yeah, she cut his feet off. Anyone seen Braindead recently?" ).

Though those flashback scenes with the little girl being menaced with a poker were .. highly unpleasant, in a very Japanese kind of way..
And, yeah, it was pretty gruelling to watch, but more because of the claustrophobia and the slow pace than because of the violence..
and most of all, I just didn't get it. I assume the director was trying to make some kind of point regarding isolation and sadism and cycles of abuse and such like, but I just didn't understand it. This isn't necessary a bad thing of course, but unlike so many other films I didn't 'get' on the first viewing, I didn't feel at all inclined to watch it again or think about it in any great detail.

Basically, my reaction is "yes, and your point is..?"
 
 
rizla mission
09:22 / 29.04.02
(oh, and the 'saves the day' ending was pretty fucking lame too, don't you think?)
 
 
Rev. Wright
15:44 / 29.04.02
Message to Mordant and Lurid.
Lightweights

Audition embodies the mythic and fable moralistic qualities, twisted by a nation suffering from post-modern cultural shakedown.
The recent horror/action releases or Ring, Audition and Battel Royal all contain this essence of a redefinition of social morality, but with that sprig of japanese myth and minimalism.

End transmission
 
 
Lurid Archive
16:34 / 29.04.02
Yeah you are probably right, will. But my revulsion with the final scenes was not solely based on the graphic violence - I usually find that fairly easy to handle. The difficulty I found was that the whole film made sense to me and I really believed in the characters. In that sense I entirely concur with expressionless - that Asami's actions are justified - and I think that you are making a similar point, will?

This warped morality, this logic of abuse, reaction and sadism is precisely what I find hard to deal with. This is probably a personal thing, but I find that being presented with an atrocity which makes sense in context, just fills me with disgust.
 
 
Rev. Wright
14:39 / 30.04.02
Its a pity that cinema is only allowed to present such aspects of humanity as fiction, compared to 'real' life. The Japanese IMO, appear to have closely grasped a dry sense of the human psyche, I site works such as Seven Samurai and Hana Bi. I've read and heard many comparisons to the Japanese and the British sense of humour and dry wit, this may be a shared observational understanding of psychology. I find directors, such as Mike Leigh, very disturbing, in possiobly the same way you do to the psychology in Audition.

Audition has an inherent tradition not only to myth lore, but also to a Japanese taste for explicit material, such as the Auastralian made Faces of Death series and teh Japanese made Guinea Pig series. Humiliation and torture are explicit in the most popular videos within teh latter series. Is this a comparison to the UK's taste as it was during the early phase of video rental, which became video nasties, or as I have written in much detail, the Post Modern tradition of Horror at play. The fear of the killer from within our society.

I'll write more when I have more time.
 
 
Lurid Archive
15:13 / 30.04.02
You find Mike Leigh disturbing? How odd. There is a certain bleakness to his work, sure, but disturbing? Tell us more. Also, I'd be interested to know more about the idea of Audition - and other films - being part of a tradition. Be gentle though - my ignorance of japanese myth lore cannot be overstated.
 
 
Jack Fear
12:44 / 09.01.03
Kiri kiri kiri kiri...

Resurrecting this topic cos I just watched the DVD last night and feel as if I have been hit by two stout planks.

In defense of Will, I found Mike Leigh's Naked extremely disturbing—not so much for the main story of Johnny's rambles, as for the sadistic games-playing back in the girls' flat: there was something about the vacuous giggle of that amoral toff that gave me the shivers.

But the final third of Audition, where you're never quite sure what's "real" and what's not, is the closest thing I've ever scene to a pure cinematic rendering of the nightmare state: the unexplained shifts in location, the way that people turn into other people, the utter implausibility of Asami's motivations and methods—all had that inexorable dream logic.

Asami came off as some sort of vengeful force, yes: but vengeance for what? Aoyama was not a bad guy at heart—clueless, yeah, but certainly not heartless. The rush of images, though, suggests that he feels guilty about and ashamed of his sexual impulses and his fleeting fantasies—about the girl his son brings home, about his secretary (did she ever "really" give him a blowjob? maybe so, maybe no—but her behavior certainly indicates some sort of sexual tension between the two)... but the "punishment" far exceeds what is appropriate for the "crime."

D, who knows a little about these things, finds Audition squarely in the tradition of Japanese ghost stories, where revenants deal out cruel and inexplicable vengeance for obscure reasons. And there's some suggestion of that: Asami is always dressed in white (the color of death, in Japanese semiotics), and seems to move at will, to exist without the need for food or money.

Also well in the tradition of Japanese ghost stories (and Western psychic research) is the notion that violent or unnatural events may leave a "scar," a mark on the surface of reality, and that proximity to a person or place thus scarred can trigger a psychic impression in a person. Thus we get Aoyama seeing things he could not possibly have "really" seen: did he "really" meet Asami's stepfather? was there "really" a passerby explaining the murder at the Stone Fish bar? was he ever "really" in Asami's apartment?

And consider what happens when she's thrown down the stairs at the end (and remember, she says she was thrown down the stairs as a child): there's that strange pulsing in her neck, as if something is trying to get out—and then she starts repeating phrases she used in her courtship with Aoyama: like a tape unspooling, like a CD skipping, like HAL at the end of 2001 burbling out random fragments of memory.

I don't know how much of the film we're supposed to accept as "real"—everything after Asami and Aoyama make love, and maybe before, is suspect. (D said, "The disjointedness of the last half seems indicative of a psychotic break." I asked, "Whose? Aoyama's, or Asami's?" She laughed and said, "The filmmaker's!")

Interesting how scenes would recur in flashback, but would be different—when Asami talks about how she was abused as a child, for instance: why were we not shown this the first time around? Why is it that Aoyama (our viewpoint character) seems to be receiving this information for the first time? Did he hear it in the initial conversation, but ignored it, as he ignored so many other red flags, in his love-blind state? Or is he just now receiving the psychic impression of just how damaged Asami is, and in his drug-induced fugue state, incorporating this information into an existing memory in order to process it?

In the end, of course, question about what "really" happened are beside the point—but it makes for a fascinating mental exercise. Touchstones: Bergman's Persona and Cries and Whispers, Polanski's Repulsion, Ozu's Woman in the Dunes.
 
 
rizla mission
13:50 / 09.01.03
That's a really interesting post. Makes me want to watch it again..
 
 
Jack Fear
14:14 / 09.01.03
Thinking about it, I wonder if it's significant that Shigehiko—whose relationship to girls and to his own sexuality seems to be remarkably healthy and guilt-free ("I thought she was pretty, so I asked her to come over"), who seems to genuinely like and regard girls as people with whom he can share his interests—as opposed to the elder Aoyama, who idealizes and projects—is able to fight off Asami, where his Dad cannot?
 
 
arcboi
18:11 / 09.01.03
A great film, especially for the way it just flips into the unexpected nasty bits. I certainly was cringing in parts, although I jumped out of my seat when that sack moved!
 
 
hanabius yamamura
09:51 / 10.01.03
excellent thread with some fascinating ideas ... too much to think about at once but things which occur to me :
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JACK FEAR states :'Also well in the tradition of Japanese ghost stories (and Western psychic research) is the notion that violent or unnatural events may leave a "scar," a mark on the surface of reality'

For another potential example of this , DARK WATER provides excellent viewing ... as well as being DAMN scary

A visual concept i have begun to notice in these types of films ie scary japanese films ( and potentially one chinese film - THE EYE )is that certain characters ( usually a child / young person who may or may not be 'real'- i use the term to minimise spoilage ) always has long hair , with a bowed head so that their eyes are covered by the hair. Asami does this at points in AUDITION , it also occurs in DARK WATER , SEANCE and RING ... does this have some 'eyes are the window to the soul' reasoning behind it ???

lastly , if you think AUDITION is rough , i would advise you to avoid FREEZER ... NOT a pleasant experience ...
 
 
Lurid Archive
10:28 / 10.01.03
Good advice. Now where can I get a copy...
 
 
hanabius yamamura
10:53 / 10.01.03
FREEZER by ? takashi ishii - apologies re spelling but my mate has borrowed my copy - will be living in your local HMV world cinema section for the princely sum of £19.99

... very unsettling film - made me feel slightly ashamed to be male at points ... < shudders at memories > ...
 
 
Spatula Clarke
01:31 / 03.11.03
On Channel 4 tonight, hence the bump. There's too much in there to even attempt to pull it apart after a first viewing, but I do want to address this bit of Jack’s post quickly:

Did he hear it in the initial conversation, but ignored it, as he ignored so many other red flags, in his love-blind state?

There are a couple of clues about the revision of the café/restaurant scenes, the main one being the odd splicing going on in both of them the first time around, something that I’d imagine is fairly easy to miss because of the subtitles. The visuals are completely cut up, jumping around, vital pieces of the scene missing - we're not getting the entire picture here, all the mentions of abuse being overwritten with a couple of bland nothings.

It may be that Aoyama has basically ignored the responses to his questions, but I'm not convinced. For one thing, he'd also have to be ignoring his own replies. I think what we're getting here is the version of the scene that he either imagined beforehand or was planning on telling people, where Asami is the Perfect Wife: quiet, unassuming, purely there to provide him with comfort.

It’s not just sudden jumps going on, either – there are a couple of occasions where speech is dubbed over the visuals. Need to watch again, though.
 
 
grant
16:34 / 03.11.03
SPOILERS, SPOILERS everywhere!

Note on the jumping video -- in the interview with the director on the DVD, he says the film is an adaptation of a novel. I'm imagining those jumps have to do with things that are skipped over in the prose version, then revealed near the end of the book.

This wire can cut through flesh and bone very easily.

I'm in love with that spray bottle.

Oh, and whoever asked about the needles as torture devices, they're not. Those are acupuncture needles, which are designed to stimulate nerve points. They usually don't hurt unless the person putting them in is doing something wrong (some points are a little sensitive though... the same places where tattoos really hurt). In the interview, the director (who had a blond mullet and yellow-lensed sunglasses, by the way) said he used a well-made prosthetic on the actor's face for the needle scene... but he was smiling in such a way that I thought he was lying to the interviewers. You can load up someone's skin with needles without them feeling a thing.
That little "kiri kiri kiri" thing... it means "deeper, deeper," right? Ouch.
 
 
Brigade du jour
21:52 / 03.11.03
Oh man, what a fantastic fucking movie. Capped a Japanese movie themed week for me as well.

First saw Audition about two years ago but must have been tired because I wasn't all that impressed. It does indeed require multiple viewings IMHO. If only the satiate the gnawing attraction to be revolted by the more hideous symptoms of the human condition. Hmm. Sick, but brilliant. Or brilliant because it's sick.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
00:58 / 04.11.03
Interesting that nobody's brought up the most simple explanation yet: that everything after the sex *is* just a nightmare, even if it is a heavily symbolic one. We wake up from it once, before drifting back in - as you tend to with nightmares - in order to let it reach a resolution.
 
 
Foust is SO authentic
01:25 / 04.11.03
Grant, someone on IMBD says "kiri kiri kiri" is Japanese onomatepia for the sound a needle makes as it pierces skin.
 
 
Krug
03:29 / 04.11.03
Jack: Interestingly Audition, much like Repulsion and Persona were huge disappointments for me. I found Repulsion after two years of wait (that was Pakistan and finding it even once was impossible and it's all because of this great movie buff I met), Persona after a year's and Audition after a year and a half.
The only thing likable about Persona was the credits. Didn't enjoy Hour of the Wolf either which I was looking forward to.

I don't see the point in all these films.

About audition: Didn't give it too much thought but I thought it was obvious that the difference in dialog in the restaraunt scenes was merely "what I wanted to hear" and "what was really told."

Sure it was disturbing but it was soulless and pointless.
 
  
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