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The Next Generation

 
 
Tom Coates
11:50 / 28.04.02
First and foremost - there's an article over at the Washington Post which I think we should all read. Here's an excerpt from the introduction:

During the Depression, sickly Steve Rogers lived in poverty with his widowed mother, who died overworking herself to provide for her son, leaving him to survive as a delivery boy.

Alarmed by the rise of Nazism, Rogers decided to join the military but was deemed "too frail." After he begged to be accepted, Rogers was tapped for Operation Rebirth, given a "secret serum" and subjected to a rain of "vita-rays," according to the Encyclopedia of Superheroes. The weakling was reborn as Captain America, a comic book figure who could lift over a quarter of a ton and run 30 mph, with reflexes 10 times as fast as normal.

Nowadays, his treatment would be called a biotech workup.

Orphaned newsboy Billy Batson became the grown-up Captain Marvel with powers that included gaining super strength by saying "Shazam!" He could leap great distances and repel bullets with his body. In today's terms, Billy Batson is somebody who's got hold of the exoskeleton suit with similar attributes the U.S. Army is currently developing at MIT for $50 million.


[read the full text]

Now. Several questions I guess. Would you become ''transhuman'? What effect do you think that might have on the world? What effect would that have on you as a person, a human, a man, a woman, a queer etc. etc.

THere are some great quotes in the article: "The remaining human future is 25 years or 50 years," says Max More, president of the Extropy Institute, a pioneering explorer of the acceleration of technology and trans-humanism."

"In the near term, the world could divide up into three kinds of humans: the Enhanced, who embrace these opportunities, the Naturals, who have the technology available but who, like today's vegetarians, choose not to indulge for moral or aesthetic reasons, and the Rest -- those who lag behind, envying or despising these ever-increasing choices. Especially if the Enhanced can easily be recognized because of the way they look, or what they can do, this is a recipe for conflict that would make racial differences quaintly obsolete."

"There are three scenarios, says Peter Schwartz, chairman of the scenario planning firm Global Business Network. In the first, the secrets of human consciousness and the human brain elude us, and change is stately. In the second, incremental change continues to accelerate, aging is reversed, the revolution has occurred, and we are just trying to deal with the consequences. In the third, new intelligent species roam the Earth in 20 or 30 years, some of them mainly flesh and blood and some of them mainly not."
 
 
Tom Coates
12:09 / 28.04.02
Links for people who are interested:

THE SINGULARITY : A TALK WITH RAY KURZWEIL [3.25.01]
Kurzweil's site
Max More

I'm also planning to contact each of the people concerned and see if they'd like to sign up to Barbelith for a short while and participate in some of the discussion that we might have here...
 
 
Elijah, Freelance Rabbi
13:24 / 28.04.02
i dont know about all this, i get shivers of MiracleMan--Dark Age when i think about the idea of trans/super humans
Sure, being bullet proof and able to fly would be amazing, but with great power comes great responsibility, and i have trouble with plants...
 
 
Tom Coates
13:44 / 28.04.02
I'm just realising again how upsetting the reboots have been. I know that we've talked about the extropians before, but I can't find any of the threads. We must have lost them.
 
 
Thjatsi
01:09 / 29.04.02
A few things:

Posthuman is the term generally used for the hypothetical person you're mentioning. A transhumanist is one who aspires to be a posthuman.

I consider myself to be a transhumanist. However, I differ with the other members of my philosophy on a few issues.

1) I'm not so certain that science and technology are going to be beneficial to humans in the long term. However, I am willing to take a few serious risks for a chance at something better than what we have now.

2) Even if science does somehow manage to solve our major biological problems, I have serious doubts that this will occur within our lifetime. It seems like most transhumanists don't have a good concept of how science happens, and the time it takes to bring about great discoveries.

3) Sometimes it seems like being a transhumanist is a lot like being a smurf, only you say meme three times a sentence instead of smurf. And you're not blue. In general, I find the word meme to be highly pretentious, so I avoid it at all costs.

4) I'm interested primarily in life-extension, and consider the other transhuman goals to be less worthwhile.

Despite these differences, I still see a lot of good in transhumanism, and I feel no shame in considering myself to be one. Many of the more radical movements throughout history have had their share of crazy people associated with them when they first began. And, the fact that some transhumanists can be slightly annoying doesn't mean that the philosophy as a whole doesn't have something to offer.

As far as the Extropians (a subgroup of the transhumanists) go, I'm not quite sure about them. On one hand, I admire their dedication to the cause. On the other hand, I think they can be a bit naive, and I don't yet possess enough knowledge about economics to judge whether or nor their pure-capitalism is viable.
 
 
Tom Coates
06:57 / 29.04.02
A brief aside - I have approached Ray Kurzweil about perhaps becoming involved (albeit briefly) on the board and the editor of his site has said that she'll pass on anything interesting to him, and post his responses. For this purpose I have made a suit for them. I hope everyone's happy with this...
 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
10:40 / 29.04.02
That's GREAT. I must rush downstairs and re-read 'Spiritual Machines'.
 
 
grant
16:14 / 29.04.02
Especially fond of this quote:
In the near term, the world could divide up into three kinds of humans: the Enhanced, who embrace these opportunities, the Naturals, who have the technology available but who, like today's vegetarians, choose not to indulge for moral or aesthetic reasons, and the Rest -- those who lag behind, envying or despising these ever-increasing choices. Especially if the Enhanced can easily be recognized because of the way they look, or what they can do, this is a recipe for conflict that would make racial differences quaintly obsolete.

It seems to sum up everything nicely - mapping out old categories (Conservative Haves, Liberal Haves and the poor Have-Nots) over new territories.

What might make a change is if the "Enhanced" could get hardware for emphasizing the work of the "God Spot" (referenced here and in the Magick) - the brain region that seems to be responsible for mystical, out-of-body, one-with-the-universe experiences. If so, would the "turned on" Enhanced be like Platonic Philosopher Kings?

Related question (bearing in mind I'm from Palm Beach "follow the arrow to Gore, not Buchanan, elderly Jewish voter" County, Florida) : How long would current electoral process last, given a superior thinking & feeling class exists? What would an anti-Enhanced riot look like?

Also, unrelated, what enhancements will be popularly available first? I suppose internal organs for the sick are there already. But the non-medical treatments... what'll be first?
 
 
Utopia
21:30 / 29.04.02
in response to tom's "brief aside":

very cool tom, i thank you on behalf of all these ungrateful bastards.
 
 
Tamayyurt
05:19 / 30.04.02
grant- But the non-medical treatments... what'll be first?

I think a great start would be to add new senses to our five, whether it's though genetic or technological engineering. Imagine how your perspective would change if you could see ultraviolet, sense heat and the electromagnetic fields. Just think of the different arts the would spring up to cater to these new senses. Ultraviolet paintings. Electromagnetic symphonies. Thermal porn!
 
 
Tom Coates
07:03 / 30.04.02
I've also just received an e-mail from Gregory Stock who has agreed in principle to a question and answer session about the ideas of human genetic screening and manipulation embodied in his book "Redesigning Humans". I'm going to try and get a review copy, but if anyone else should be interested in reading up or reviewing the book that would probably be a tremendously good thing...
 
 
Tom Coates
14:03 / 30.04.02
If we're going to do this though, I'm going to need people to express an interest. Do you want me to get him in here or not?
 
 
grant
15:36 / 30.04.02
How easy is it to get the book? Are there any excerpts or related articles online?
 
 
kid coagulant
16:30 / 30.04.02
This sounds great. I would love to participate in some way, but I'm not sure if I'll be able to read Stock's book in time. It may be that way for a lot of people here, since his book just came out in hardcover. Maybe we could get Francis Fukuyama over here too, and he and Stock and Kurzeil can all duke it out.

What kind of 'Q & A' format did you have in mind?
 
 
Tom Coates
18:25 / 30.04.02
I don't know, really... I figure we give him a thread and make sure all the moderators are available and suggest to people that they have one question each (at most), that there's a one-hour space for posting them to the board and that they have to wait until the previous question has been answered?

Or maybe we could private message him the questions and he could answer them one-by-one? I don't know. It might be interesting to have some debate about the form of this one....
 
 
Not Here Still
18:42 / 30.04.02
Just tipping my hat in after reading your query, Tom, to signal interest. There's definitely stuff I'm pretty damn interested in here, but I'm reading up on it all as we go along...
 
 
kid coagulant
19:29 / 30.04.02
Has this sort of thing been done on barbelith before? I think that w/ enough participation, this could be very informative and worthwhile.

Has anyone read any of Stock's books before? Been poking around on amazon today, and his 'Metaman' book looks interesting, possibly because it sounds like a good name for a comicbook character. Who's read any of his 'Books of Questions'?

As far as format goes, this should definitely be discussed to some extent. Maybe we could have a 'practice' q & a, before bringing in any non-barbelithianites. Maybe we could debate the debating of the debate, or something.
 
 
Rage
22:41 / 30.04.02
Transhumanists unite! Partaaaaaaaaay!
 
 
The Monkey
03:02 / 01.05.02
grant - the short answer to your question about what would happen to politics and social process is best addressed, if circuitously, by science fiction...The Diamond Age, Lord of Light, GATTACA, The Time Machine...the shaping of social distinctions, and perhaps legal status, in which category boundaries are even more rigidly patrolled. Think caste. Alphas through Omegas...who do you think will get to write the laws?
 
 
The Monkey
03:09 / 01.05.02
Although enhanced stimulation of the "God Spot" is unlikely to lead in this direction. Stimulating the sensation of enlightenment doesn't necessarily correspond to the thing itself in a sociomoral sense. The rest of the cog framework is still there, complete with cobwebs and pathological twists. In other words, a blissed out Nazi is still a Nazi in thought, and the sensation of enlightenment will be shaped to correspond [indeed, self-validate] to the rest of the cog network...so you end up [hypothetically] with people who are very sure that they're doing the right thing....
 
 
Thjatsi
04:13 / 01.05.02
This sounds really interesting.
 
 
grant
15:30 / 01.05.02
Ah, but the deal with the "god spot" is the feeling of union with the universe and all living things... real-life zen fascism, I suppose. "I love you, you're one with me, now do as I say!"

I'm also curious - we have a lot of trouble as it is keeping the meatbodies whole and healthy. You know, there's a whole industry devoted to it. Once you start adding mechanical/electronic/nanotech elements to it, there'll be a whole new world of problems to worry about.
* Teenage hoods with electromagnets, fucking with the signals from your intra-cranial GPS while you're walking to the train station.
* Every time there's a thunderstorm, I hear a high F#, and I can't see the color green.
* A solar flare causes a wave of depression and hallucinations.
* I had a bleeding ulcer, the nanobots leaked into the stomach acid, the digestive enzymes did something to them and now they're reproducing in my digestive tract faster than I can excrete them.

Surgeons are gonna have to be like plumbers AND VCR repairmen all in one.
 
 
Tom Coates
22:16 / 01.05.02
OK, I'm going to contact the press people tomorrow and see if I can get a copy sent to me. I don't know that there's much more we can do than that at this point in time.... Perhaps I can distribute it somehow...
 
 
Ofermod
03:12 / 02.05.02
Posthuman? Bah! Puny naturals! I'm already there. That piece of plastic covering the hole between the ventricles of my heart has enhanced my life by 25 years so far. I was transformed from a blue tinged, weak baby that couldn't even crawl and had about 7 years to live according to doctors into a perfectly healthy, robust person with the fastest sprint of almost anyone I've ever met. All thanks to a piece of plastic permanently meshed with my body.
 
 
kid coagulant
13:39 / 03.05.02
OK, went to the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (darpa) site (it was listed as an 'additional information' resource at the end of that washington post article) . It's the 'central research and development organization for the Department of Defense :
( http://www.darpa.mil/ )


...and checked out 'A Compendium of DARPA Programs' , released in Arpil 2002 ( http://www.darpa.mil/body/NewsItems/darpa_fact.htm ).
It's a fascinating 68 page document that outlines the various R&D this organization is pursuing. The titles to some of the projects themselves are a grabbagof all sorts of paranoid anti-government fantasies:

- Future Combat Systems ( 'will define the concept design for a new generation of deployable, agile, versatile, lethal, survivable, sustainable, and dominant combat systems. The program will develop and integrate innovative technologies to get more firepower to the battlefield quickly, establish dominance once there, and reduce the risks to U.S. soldiers.' )
- Augmented Cognition (AugCog) ( 'will extend, by an order-of-magnitude or more, the information management capacity of the “human-computer” combination by developing and demonstrating enhancements to human cognitive ability in diverse and stressful operational environments. Specifically, this program will develop the technologies needed to measure and track a subject’s cognitive state in real-time.' )
- Bio:Info:Micro ( 'The goal of the Bio:Info:Micro program is to develop novel devices and computational tools to develop new information for controlling and exploiting biological systems at the molecular and cellular level in ways that will ultimately be used to protect the warfighter and enhance human performance for carrying out military operations.' )
- Brain Machine Interface ( 'will explore the creation of new technologies for augmenting human performance through the ability to access codes in the brain in real-time and integrate them into peripheral device or system operations. ' )
- Metamaterials ( 'In addition, the program is exploring the development and application of artificially engineered nanocomposites or “metamaterials” for achieving electromagnetic properties unobtainable in nature' )
- Mesoscopic Integrated Conformal Electronics ( 'to be able to create electronic circuits and materials on any surface, e.g., to print electrical circuits on the frames of eyeglasses or interwoven with clothing. ' )
- Morphing Aircraft Structures ( 'to create and advance enabling technologies for – and, ultimately, design, build, and demonstrate – a seamless, aerodynamically efficient, air vehicle capable of radical shape change. ' )
- Moletronics ( 'pursuing the construction of circuits using nano-scale components, such as molecules and inexpensive chemical self-assembly processes. ' )
- and lots lots more.

I can't believe this sort of stuff is online and available to everyone. Makes me wonder about the things they're not telling us about...
 
 
grant
15:06 / 03.05.02
I think there are already some morphing aircraft out there. They change wingspan, flight handling characteristics and stuff.

Sorry, off-topic, I'll shut it now.
 
 
Tom Coates
08:35 / 12.05.02
I'm still waiting for my press copy, but was wondering if anyone had any other suggestions about literature we could read around this subject...?
 
 
Thjatsi
13:18 / 13.05.02
Foundations of Transhumanism is my favorite. I'm still trying to get through all the links on this page.
 
 
kid coagulant
12:15 / 28.05.02
q&a w/ Stock in Salon today:

Link

'Our shiny happy clone future'

'Procreation without sex, smarter babies and the right to choose the sexual orientation of your kids -- it's all good, says scientist Gregory Stock'
 
 
Mystery Gypt
19:32 / 28.05.02
a blissed out Nazi is still a Nazi in thought, and the sensation of enlightenment will be shaped to correspond

this seems to imply a pretty essentialist view of identity, a stance which is not only critiqued by the very notion of transhumanism but which is particularly ill suited for describing a political characteristic.

Nazism is not something born into people and an unescapable determinant of who they are. ask anyone from germany at the time, you've got a nation full of folks who want to claim temporary insanity.

if out identities are a network of interrelated memories, perceptions, and ideas, all cobbled together by our sense of time-in-the-present to create a sense of selfhood, than surely a direct, controlling stimulation into this network will have a radical effect. we are never much more than we simply claim to be, and the first effect a massive dose of god-spot zapping ought to have would be to toss the self-identity construct into the air for serious metaphysical renegotiation.
 
 
cusm
20:26 / 30.05.02
Resource:

http://www.bjklein.com/

There be lots of good stuff there, and a smart Barbelith-like forum community as well.
 
 
kid coagulant
12:50 / 06.06.02
Excerpt from that new Stock book here:

http://www.kurzweilai.net/meme/frame.html?main=/articles/art0473.html

'The Last Human
by Gregory Stock

We are on the cusp of profound biological change, poised to transcend our current form and character on a journey to destinations of new imagination. The arrival of safe, reliable germline technology will signal the beginning of human self-design. Progressive self-transformation could change our descendants into something sufficiently different from our present selves to not be human in the sense we use the term now. But the ultimate question of our era is whether the cutting edge of life is destined to shift from its present biological substrate — the carbon and other organic materials of our flesh — to that of silicon and its ilk, as proposed by leading artificial-intelligence theorists such as Hans Moravec and Ray Kurzweil.'

link to Stock's 'Redesigning Humans' site:

http://research.mednet.ucla.edu/pmts/redesign.htm
 
 
grant
14:40 / 07.06.02
From the Grant Morrison interview linked to in the Comics forum:

“The first superhumans will need to be given forward-moving ideas instead of backward-looking doctrines. It will be in our own interests to show them a copy of Superman before we show them a copy of Mein Kampf as I've said elsewhere.

“We will have to show them comics. In fact, I have a feeling they will demand to see them. Comic books are the only art form forward thinking enough to have mounted a sustained examination and critique of the superhuman ideal. I imagine that these new people will learn a lot about how to behave and how not to behave from books like X-Men or Miracleman or The Authority.

“That's why I think superhero stories are developing into the most important social realist fiction of the coming century. Imagining role models and moral codes for the children of tomorrow or showing them pitfalls of power is a pretty good job to have.”

 
 
Tom Coates
08:50 / 08.06.02
I've received my copy of the Gregory Stock book, and will endeavour to read and review it in the coming couple of weeks. I would encourage anyone else interested in this debate to try and get their hands on a copy as well. Gregory Stock has confirmed that he's willing to do an intense Q&A session at the end of the month...
 
 
Thjatsi
15:53 / 08.06.02
I really hate paying twenty dollars for a book, but I will get a copy and read it before the end of the month.
 
  
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