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Brits Found Guilty in Greek 'Plane Spotter' Case

 
 
Shortfatdyke
06:09 / 27.04.02
as a follow up to the original thread about this, the british 'tourists' charged with spying after they went plane spotting in greece have been found guilty. they've been allowed to come back to britain pending their appeal. convictions are up to a three year jail sentence (max penalty is 20 years).

have we been missing something here? the british press are automatically assuming that the greek authorities are stupid, that the trial could never be fair (after all, it was being held in johnny foreigner country) and that the defendants were innocent. they have been convicted, and the press is still saying the same thing. is this a ridiculous miscarriage of justice, or is there evidence that some of them, at least, were actually spying?
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
06:33 / 27.04.02
I think (remembering from when they were first arrested) one of them had connections with the Turkish government, so it's hardly surprising Greece would investigate at the very least.
I just think it's a phenomenal double standard- if anyone comes to the UK and gets accused of anything they're obviously guilty in the eyes of the press, but when we go elsewhere and break their laws, it's a travesty of justice when we get caught...
The Mail are once again suggesting a boycott of all things Greek- wonder if that includes the concept of democracy and half our language?
 
 
Tom Coates
10:45 / 27.04.02
Can anyone find us a link to the thread in question?
 
 
Ganesh
14:07 / 27.04.02
I'm boycotting Greek love.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
19:11 / 27.04.02
Original thread

On Radio 4 this morning, claims from a reporter that "the Greeks don't understand the concept of 'plane spotting, having nothing to compare it to in their own culture." Make of that comment what you will.
 
 
johnnymonolith
19:51 / 27.04.02
Being Greek, can i say that indeed the connection with the Turkish government was a significant factor in their being treated more wearily than usually. Also you have to realise that you cannot really go about your business in a foreign country as if you were still on your own; i have been living in the UK for six years now and that's the first thing you learn in a foreign country(and i have lived in Russia as well): "you are not home now; things are different here"- don't get me wrong, Greek authorities can be very stupid and the very definition of bureaucracy when they feel like it, but still you have to take into consideration things like the fact that plane spotting is not exactly a widespread pasttime in Greece. So perhaps it's more of a cultural misunderstanding on both sides.

Hope i didn't come across as being too patriotic
 
 
Tom Coates
21:26 / 27.04.02
No - not at all. I think it's a very interesting point to make. How many of us assume that this kind of thing is just something insane going on in another country rather than thinking about what possible reasons there could be for their behaviour. I mean, if it's illegal it's illegal - and if the consequences are difficult or severe, then you'd expect a country to be tense about it. I'm really interested in this stuff, and I think the fact that we in England look at these people as being slightly ridiculous and absurd doesn't mean that they are viewed that way in Greece - OR that what they did has no consequences and isn't viewed in a different way by the people in the country concerned. Although of course it's frustrating when we assume that we're right immediately, perhaps its better for the whole thing to be worked through in the European courts than in the tabloids of the UK....
 
 
Spatula Clarke
21:32 / 27.04.02
Absolutely no offense intended there, kimota. I just wasn't sure whether the reporter was just making a stupid, uneducated remark or if it was based on fact.

Anyone else see shades of the Louise Woodward case in the way that this has been reported?
 
 
Shortfatdyke
01:21 / 28.04.02
kimota - i hate the arrogant way the british have treated this whole affair. it seems to be a really 'empire-ish' frame of mind. you cannot piss around in other countries without educating yourself about their culture and expect to get away with it by waving a british passport.

so a group of people seen as harmless and fairly amusing in this country are seen as something else in another country. i was in greece for two weeks last year, and it was obvious immediately that they were sensitive about photography at official/military areas. i think the tour operator was complacent, to say the least, about this and should've been the ones in the dock.

as for the woodward case, well she was a nice, white middle class girl, so basically who cares what she did or didn't do? i think she was innocent actually, but at around the same time another british woman in california was jailed for life in similar circumstances, but hardly a peep was heard from the press. almost certainly because she was older and a british asian. but woodward again was seen as automatically innocent because she was 'one of us'.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
10:20 / 28.04.02
Sorry to keep referring to this paper (but I HAVE to read it at work)- but the Mail are now recommending cancelling holidays to Greece and taking them in Turkey instead.
Methinks human rights only count to them when it's Brits involved?

My personal stance on all this? They broke the law. They even had printouts from a planespotters' website (such things exist? oh my) on them which said, in as many words, that it's illegal to photograph Greek airbases. Therefore, they either knew they were breaking the law, or they were monumentally stupid. (And of course, ignorance is no defence, etc.)

If you break a local law, you have to face local justice. (Whether or not you personally think the law is right or wrong.) The fact that they are British shouldn't, in an ideal world, make a jot of difference, even to the British press.

Imagine a different version of the situation... an Afghan, or an Iraqi, is caught taking photos of a British installation... I wonder if the media would be so forgiving then.

Don't worry, kimota- I am in full agreement. Was gonna bring up Louise Woodward myself, but E Ranfy and sfd beat me to it.
 
 
johnnymonolith
12:21 / 28.04.02
Yes, I do think that Greek authorities are very sensitive about filming or taking photos (often with good reason) but basically I am a bit pissed off with how the British press is handling this case and yes, I do feel that the reactions of some people are due to the whole "almighty empire" thing lurking somewhere in the back of their heads. On the other hand, it is a "logical" FIRST reaction for people to have("omigod!some fellow compatriots are being tried in a foreign country for a bit of innocent fun!You bastards!")but some people will not go to the length of actually checking both their own reactions and other people's cultural sensibilities. I genuinely feel for those
people on trial, it's no fun I bet ending up in court while on yours hols.
 
 
Kit-Cat Club
09:24 / 29.04.02
Stoatie - yeah, human rights are only important when there are (white) Brits involved. C.f. Meryem Altun, the fiftieth hunger striker to die in Turkey, and the daughter of Turkish political refugees who live in the Stoke Newington/Dalston area - her face is plastered all over Stoke Newington, and yet I could hardly find a word about it in the British press (exception - the Times). There was more from Germany.

I am reminded of the infamous case of the American sentenced to the lash for sticking chewing gum on a car in Singapore. It does strike me that a degree of, um, cultural humility would have been appropriate in both cases. 'When in Rome' and all that.
 
  
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