Subcultural engagement for the 21st Century...
Barbelith is a new kind of community (find out more)...
You can login or register.

Underground > Radio & Music >

Britney

Matthew Fluxington

17:20 / 23.04.02

Spun off from the "Arguments" thread.

Britney Spears has recorded some of the finest pop songs of the past few years. Don't argue against it, it's just a fact, okay? "I'm A Slave 4 U", "Oops...I Did It Again", "Lucky", "...Baby One More Time", "Stronger" - these are brilliant dancepop singles. She sings them well, ie, like a robot girl. I don't think everybody needs to like Britney, but I do think that the people who profess to hate her are boring and lacking in a lot of perspective and humor/fun.

One of the cool things about Britney is that she's more or less a blank 'automatic-celebrity' template that other people can use for their own purposes - whether's it's lolita pop, Disney ballads, or The Neptunes' full-on strip club raunch. She has a huge personality, and no personality at all whatsoever. I love that weird paradox. I love that part of the reason she's famous is because her name sounds like the name of a famous person. Say it out loud: "Britney Spears". Can you separate that name from the idea of fame and ubiquity? It's like a brand name. I think that Britney is a personification of late 90s/early 2000's US pop/celebrity/consumer culture.

I think Britney is built to last. There's a powerful cult of non-personality around her that is based in creating this contradictory enigma that is easy to be sucked into - she's a reflection of the way a lot of people tend to think about themselves in terms of binary relationships, so many people never consider that Britney may actually be in a grey area, just like everyone else.

Oh, another thing I find interesting about Britney Spears is how her appearance is almost irrelevant in how everyone just goes along with "Britney is HOT and SEXXXY" - her name and persona has been branded so well that just the association of the idea of her goes hand in hand with the idea that she is attractive and desirable.

17:53 / 23.04.02

I'm interested to see how well (or otherwise) she and the people around her survive/market the transition from Teen Virgin to Post-Hymen Woman...

Matthew Fluxington

18:20 / 23.04.02

I think part of the reason why Britney will very likely make that transition with ease is because she has always been marketed simultaneously as a sex object and as a "moral young girl", so in a way, the assumption for many has always been that she was sexual, that she's "not that innocent". Her newest record is all about a desire to grow out of the more virtuous old image, so it eases people out of it before she likely goes full-on sexy Madonna-style on her next LP.

Like I said, I think that part of the brilliance behind the Britney Spears enterprise is that from the get-go, it was made obvious that she was something to be molded and geared to different markets simultaneously. She's built to adapt, so really, her career is based entirely on how in tune with popular tastes her handlers are.

I'd love to see her do some more "serious" songs, like a serious stab at an intelligent folk song, some Strokes-style rock, more hip hop-flavored stuff, some really sick electoclash stuff a la Peaches and Crossover.

wembley can change in 28 days

19:07 / 23.04.02

I won't argue that she's not having fun, and a lot of people with her. I just don't think she can sing; I'd rather listen to Christina Aguilera. I never said I didn't like her, I merely said she was the anti-christ. The idea that she can be marketed as a "sex symbol and a moral young girl" at the same time is so preposterous. I love Britney Spears for reminding me that there's still something to fight against in this world.

And I even quoted Britney in my last English essay, so we'll see how that goes over.

19:22 / 23.04.02

Of all the things to "fight against" in the modern world, you're choosing Britney?!

What exactly has being able to sing got to do with anything? The 'Pop Idol' finalists were all sterling singers and, to a child, utterly soulless. Technical competence just ain't sexy...

Of course the chaste/"moral" can be packaged up with sex appeal! MTV India shows nothing but.

wembley can change in 28 days

20:44 / 23.04.02

Technical competence just ain't sexy...

Perhaps herein lies my problem. I find Tom Waits, Warren Ellis, and Blixa Bargeld all sexier than Justin Timberlake. I do not, however, find Jimmy Page sexy. Go figure. He took up hair farming; I fell off the boat.

With me an' Britney, it's personal. I've got a 14-year-old brother whose brain cells are starting to go through puberty, and I can't tell you how much it pains me to see him ignoring my infusions of Lou Reed and spending his money on super-crapola marketing stuff. I know it will turn out for the best, however, for I have faith in the power of art to stuff it up the bum of capitalism, and besides, I used to have a poster of Jordan Knight (shirtless) on my wall.

wembley can change in 28 days

20:44 / 23.04.02

Did I say wall? I mean ceiling.

20:53 / 23.04.02

... and older generations of your family doubtless sighed and tutted over your own refusal to recognise the melodic genius of Dame Vera Lynn and those real singers who didn't mumble or ponce around in make-up. "Is that supposed to be a man or a woman?" Etc.

% I hate it when people insist on confusing art with capitalism... %

Matthew Fluxington

21:03 / 23.04.02

I've got a 14-year-old brother whose brain cells are starting to go through puberty, and I can't tell you how much it pains me to see him ignoring my infusions of Lou Reed and spending his money on super-crapola marketing stuff.

Well, there's a few good explanations for this:

1. Maybe he just think Lou Reed sucks. A lot of people with good taste share this opinion. Lou Reed and other things you might be forcing on him might just not be his thing, you know?

2. Maybe he just wants to hear silly age-appropriate pop. Lou Reed is really more of an 'adult' kind of music, and isn't exactly geared in any way towards young ears.

3. Maybe he's rebelling against you, and resents you telling him what he should like. You're dismissing all of the things that he likes, and trying to replace it with stuff that he probably thinks are boring. That's overbearing and unfair. It's disrespectful to him to tell him that all of his tastes are crap and that's he's a drone, and I think he's got a good reason to distrust whatever you'll try to get him to hear. This is always the case, regardless of age - if you keep putting down people's tastes and trying to shove something else on them, they will think you are a jerk. If you want to get people to like things, you don't dis what they like, you just talk about how great the music is, the less context the better. Trust me.

I have a 14 year old brother too. He started off on lamer stuff, but is now developing his tastes, mostly on his own. I've never tried to force anything on him, any exposure that he has to my tastes is normally an accident or just part of the fact that I've spent a lot of time living in the same house with him.

21:17 / 23.04.02

I think Britney and all the rest are disturbing and sick. There's just something about the manufactured production that is unnerving and creepy... I know I sound like a crab, but I cant help but be very repulsed by her and her ilk of boy bands and whatnot.

Solitaire Rose as Tom Servo

22:06 / 23.04.02

In watching her Pepsi Opus during the Super Bowl I was struck by how the pretty much showed what she is...a marketable commodite. The cute sexy blonde teenage girl. As generic as possible to attract the most consumers, and as much of a product as Pork and beans.

Don't get me wrong, pork and beans is fine, and a lot of people buy that stuff and like it. But it's just pork and beans. Like it for what it is. She has a decent pop-song writing corporation and marketing concern behind her and she does her job well enough (although her creepy shark eye keep me from thinking she's sexy).

She isn't good or evil in the same way that peanut butter is neither good nor evil. It's there on the shelf and if you like the ads, you'll buy it.

wembley can change in 28 days

22:50 / 23.04.02

Flux - your comments are well taken. However, I must remind myself to put [joke] [/joke] around such posts of mine in the future...

08:44 / 24.04.02

i love flux! everythng he has said on this thread is genius!
about the whole marketing thing, barry and solitaire, all bands are marketed in some way.
they're all marketed, that's a fact of the music industry. what are you gonna do?

08:52 / 24.04.02

hmm, marketing. so you go for the bands whose marketing you can relate to? in a way, i totally agree with that - i remember a work colleague seriously upsetting someone for suggesting that morrissey was no more or less meaningful than a double glazing salesman, saying whatever was needed to sell his product. but i also totally disagree - because then that means no one is for real, right? tribe 8, for instance, don't really give a fuck about feminism, they're just tapping into a particular market.

The Natural Way

09:49 / 24.04.02

Rose:

The shark-eye thing! Yes! I thought it was only my mates and I who'd noticed that.

10:29 / 24.04.02

Rose - great analogy with the pork and beans.

and wembley your stating that Britney is the anti-christ like its a bad thing. One day you will all kneel before her!

Seriously I think she's a Satanist (or someone in her managment is)

11:14 / 24.04.02

Scientologist more likely.

...so you go for the bands whose marketing you can relate to?...That means no one is for real, right?...they're just tapping into a particular market.

Everyone goes for the marketing that they accept. The fact that its marketing doesn't mean that the band doesn't really share those beliefs.

11:17 / 24.04.02

biok9 - ah yes, that's more accurate. makes me feel more comfortable, too!

Matthew Fluxington

12:39 / 24.04.02

Everyone goes for the marketing that they accept

Exactly. That's why there's "demographics".

12:56 / 24.04.02

I never listen to Top Forty, so I really can't comment on Britney's talent or lack thereof. Her face, however, is utterly inescapable; it's fucking everywhere. It is also, I've noted, highly mutable. In shots from concerts and television shows, she looks pretty, but nothing more; in her promo stills, she looks drop-dead gorgeous. Whose makeup does she wear? Adobe PhotoShop's.

14:23 / 24.04.02

Brilliant insight Flux. I also like 'Nesh am interested in seeing what happens when she passes the "womanchild" phase.

Oh, and Jimmy Page was TOTALLy hot in his heyday. Gross now though.

More insights if I have any.

ONLY NICE THINGS

20:35 / 18.04.04

So - "Toxic" - is it a stonking return to form, or am I just really easy?

00:07 / 19.04.04

Return to form? In the Zone is a brilliant album!!! - Me against the Music was a fairly weak single, but there are a ton of great songs on that CD - Brave New Girl, Outrageous, Early Morning, Breathe, the one about masturbating I can't remember the name of, the incredible genius (I got that) Boom Boom featuring the Ying Yang Twins, and the desi remix of Me Against The Music. You should totally get it.

01:32 / 19.04.04

'Toxic' is really good, but I want it to not be on heavy rotation so much anymore. Half the album is hott!, as these things so often are.

10:57 / 19.04.04

It was in order to put painters to sleep while keeping them awake at the height of the renaissance it was usual to surround them with diversions and to play Aerolian music, so that during their long and patient hours of manual labor they might keep their minds elsewhere as much as possible.

ONLY NICE THINGS

21:43 / 19.04.04

Aerolian? Music played by small bars of chocolate?

If you are going to try to patronise the pop kids, do at least watch your spelling, dear. And try not to threadrot. Do you have a position on Britney?

23:39 / 19.04.04

Toxic is a stunning tune, the best single I've heard in a long time. This thread makes me want to download the whole album.

Scrambled Password Bogus Email

17:32 / 20.04.04

The production on Toxic is fucking great, and the melodies are insta-catchy, like most of Cathy Dennis' stuff...It's a cracking tune.

I'm with Fluxington-Smythe, if you 'hate' this kind of thing, then direct the hatred to the source, which is not Britney at all, at all...She has a team of suits who are allied with the interests of Pepsi et al, and need Britney's to help flog fizzy drinks and lard burgers. The writers and production teams are frequently making great records, occasionally great songs, and Britters is the perfect pop Cyborg, doing Janet Jackson 10 Years Ago in a cute wee white body. Don't shoot the messenger!

20:00 / 20.04.04

who cares . Would Britteny be evil if she wasn't famous? Would she be good if she gave all her money to charity?

Jack The Bodiless

11:18 / 22.04.04

Toxic is a fantastic song. So is Baby One More Time. These are the only two good songs I have ever heard her squeak. I have a lot of time for pop music of all eras, shapes and sizes (unlike half the music snobs on the board who claim to like pop music, but only their own special kind of pop music - oh, yes, I'm better than you all), but the Spears machine, historically, has not produced fantastic pop music. Identikit reproductions of her first hit, yes...

Now Aguilera, there's a pop star - am very interested to hear what her people come up with next, especially as they've avoided Neptunisation to date...

Regrettable Juvenilia

11:53 / 22.04.04

She has a team of suits

Unlike all the bands you like, whose marketing/press/tour organisation/legal work etc is all done by magickal bearded pixies.

15:35 / 22.04.04

I had pretty much written off Ms Spears, to be honest. First there was that awesome first single that pretty much blew everything else off the map, then there was the tarty school-girl video and then {some other crap} Oops, she did it again. But then, nothing interesting - all cod trying to be cool crap that just entirely wasn't, cod R&B and attempts to make her look almost like a credible artist. Which, let's be clear, she mostly isn't. I had finally abandoned her and replaced her with Xtina in my heart as my one lurid pop excess (post Timberlake, which is - to be far - mostly about how firm and peach-like he looks) - but now shock here comes Toxic and I'm intrigued again. Not thrilled, mind, but I'm prepared to accept that she's not a rotting pop corpse.

01:12 / 23.04.04

"Toxic" is fucking brilliant. It's the only Britney product i've puchased. When I first heard the final 45 seconds on the radio I was hooked. When the dj came on after and said it was Britney my jaw dropped. But the fact that her picture is on the disc cover is irrelevant to the song, isnt it? Cathy Dennis and Bloodshy & Avant are responsible for this pop/funk monster. Simple, creative writing. Simple, creative production.

[rot]
Also, JImmy Page was sexy back in the day. Not because of technical competance, but in addition to it. The two are niether mutually exclusive or mutually exclusive. I'm sure we could all list lots of examples to illustrate either way...
[/rot]

03:58 / 23.04.04

everyone just goes along with "Britney is HOT and SEXXXY"

pmyeh.
only if she were to cut off an arm or someting to make her interesting. i suppose she could get tattoos... but only if she gets a shitload. and shaves her head.