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The truth about gay animals

 
 
Sleeperservice
17:02 / 23.04.02
I can't find reference to this programme anywhere else so...

Did anyone else see it? Channel 4 last night. What a fantastic program! The scene with Baroness Young being shown gay animals shagging! Fantastic! I wish I'd recorded it so I could watch it again & again... Victor Lewis Smith in the Evening Standard tonight suggested that when Baroness Young goes to purgatory there'll be a couple of female bonobo chimps waiting for her ))
 
 
Ganesh
17:42 / 23.04.02
Not to mention the intermittently-but-deeply annoying Scott Capurro. Didn't see it; not sure whether or not ZoCher taped it.
 
 
Shortfatdyke
18:11 / 23.04.02
.... following on from the previous weeks' the truth about lesbian sex. which i didn't get to see either, but which has had every dyke i've come across since (pun intended) steaming angry. hope the animals one was rather better.
 
 
Our Lady of The Two Towers
15:37 / 24.04.02
I missed that one. Wasn't cheap, exploitative what-mens-mags-think- lesbian-sex-is-like stuff was it? Not channel 4? I *fully* expect the third program in the series to be 'the truth about gay sex', I'm sure Channel 4 will want to be fair to everyone...
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
16:02 / 24.04.02
Surely "the truth about gay animal sex"? Hosted by Brett Anderson...

I saw some of the truth about lesbian sex. It wasn't lad's-maggish, so much as just flabby, badly-edited, misconceived and very dull. The achingly long section in which a lesbian attempted to use "gaydar" to detect which of three people was a lesbian (three times, with different people) was almost clasically bad television.
 
 
Tom Coates
17:30 / 24.04.02
I watched "The Truth about Gay Animals" and frankly I was appalled. It was the worst kind of rubbish I'd ever seen and completely disgusted me. The fact is that there's a really important issue there. It's all to do with whether or not homosexuality is perceived as something that happens in nature or whether it's a purely human thing - a thing of choice, of 'morality' rather than something that happens cross-species.

It may be a facetious thing to have to argue, but a lot of people around the world still believe that homosexuality is an unnatural practice perpetrated by the godless and the evil. It cuts over issues of sexuality, issues of morality, issues of genetics, issues of society, prejudices of science. Etc. Etc. Etc.

Scott Capuro in my eyes looked all the way through it like he was bored out of his mind and spent a good proportion of his time being cruel to people from previous generations who were taught that gay people were disgusting and evil. The peopel he was being cruel to were themselves trying to be as nice as they could, even though they clearly felt uncomfortable.

I was actually EXCITED by the prospect of this program, that it was on at all! I thought it would be an interesting insight into scientific prejudice, origins of sexuality and the like AND have a few laughs in it. All in all the best kind of documentary. But in the end, I turned off about 2/3rds of the way through in disgust. There was NOTHING to redeem it in the parts I saw. And I was essentially offended by it. I have even written to Channel 4 to complain! I mean - I *never* do that shit!
 
 
Tom Coates
17:35 / 24.04.02
By the way - if anyone else felt the same way about the program (or completely differently) then you can shout about it here. I just did.
 
 
Mourne Kransky
19:33 / 24.04.02
Such a missed opportunity. There was so much in more in the vein of the student of sheep sex which they could have investigated to good effect. Scott Capurro came over as a bit of a tit and there was far too much of him zipping up his flies in Travoltaesque manner and making pointless phone calls filling the hour.

There is lots of research and literature on male animals having sex with other male animals, penetrative or not, and on male-male coupling. I remember reading Nico Tinbergen's stuff on male gulls bonding way back in the 70's at University, but Capurro was pretending to be uncovering "the great secret".

It is an immensely important subject and the analysis of why animal behaviourists have been so blinkered in their reporting of it was worthy of more than Scottie's banalities. The Cambridge professor was set up to look like the academic equivalent of Baroness Young when his points were worthy of serious consideration and debate.

I'm sure it made no difference to the viewpoint of Lady Young whatsoever but there was some belated pleasure to be had from her encounter with animal porn. The whole programme could and should have been a much finer piece of tv though.
 
 
The Natural Way
07:57 / 25.04.02
SFD: Thought 'Truth about lesbian...etc' would piss people off. Twas the way everything was phrased:

"Well, what you don't know about LESBIANS is..."

"LESBIANS do this, LESBIANS do that...LESBIANS like the other..."

a programme for spacks. Just wanted to sit the director down and explain:

"Y'know, there isn't only one lesbian..."
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
08:15 / 25.04.02
Wanted to see it, but sounds like I didn't miss much. See, there was an article in the Mail on Sunday two weeks back about it... it was a slow news day, and the columnists had little to get angry about- so one of them (I forget which) had an amazing rant about "how DARE Channel 4 suggest that swans might be GAY???", and made lots of the predictable MoS about declining standards and what-have-you. If it'd been in the Onion, it would have been funny. (Though it did contain the phrase "monstered by beaks", which is fucking poetry.)
I was gonna ask if anyone taped it, but having read the thread, I think perhaps I won't.
 
 
The Natural Way
08:48 / 25.04.02
Yeah, the animals one, whilst annoying and less than scientific, did get me thinking. I mean, why the fuck is animal gayness not real gayness? Someone needs to explain. So, they're of the same sex and they're pleasuring each other.....ummm, sounds homosexual to me. Or are they "malfunctioning"? So? Why the fuck aren't humans "malfunctioning" when they do it? What does "malfunctioning" mean anyway? Nurture as opposed to nature? So? What the fuck does that mean? Does that make the feelings any less real?

Some of those science guys w/ their funny ideas about "be careful not to apply human traits/value judgements to animals" were really tieing themselves in knots w/ their shit arguments...
 
 
Ganesh
10:19 / 25.04.02
I guess because 'gay' does not equal 'homosexual' - and many would also argue that 'male having sex with male' also doesn't equal homosexuality...
 
 
The Natural Way
11:08 / 25.04.02
But that wasn't where they were coming from. I think their arguments were implicit w/ the idea that the animals were, in some way, *wrong*, (the result of skew-whiff conditioning) and that humans, well...humans were REALLY gay (whatever that means). To be honest, I'm doing a lousy job of picking apart their argument, but I'm beginning to think it's because they didn't have a very clear position in the first place.
 
 
suds
11:26 / 25.04.02
this post is way way late, but...

the truth about lesbians was dumb, but my housemates learnt a lot. they were amazed at everything on the show!
sfd, why are your lesbian chums cross about it?
 
 
Shortfatdyke
12:08 / 25.04.02
suds - don't wish to threadrot too much here (although channel 4's treatment of gay issues is certainly needing attention these days). evidence received so far: the prog had a lesbian researcher (i think) who let a straight man direct as 'he would be able to think outside the box'; gee, thanks. the doc apparently began by showing straight porn with two women, i.e. mens ideas as to how women get it on. they chose just a couple of young women who frequent a bar in london to talk about lesbian sex - no studio interviews (which would've implied a more serious angle) no older women, no butches etc. did it discuss sm? i didn't see it, but it was seen by many to be lowest common denominator tv. whereas i would like to see a serious doc on lesbian sexuality.
 
 
Sleeperservice
15:55 / 26.04.02
I didn't see the lesbian programme so I can't really comment but I haven't heard good things either.

So what exactly got you so upset about this programme Tom? Yes, this is an important issue but I for one have never seen this subject broached on TV before. Sure it would have been better if Horizon had done a programme on this subject but can you imagine how hard (impossible?) it would be to get a research grant to investigate gay animals? (and hence appear as a talking head on Horizon...) If you don't like Scott Capuro then fine but hardly worth writing-off the whole program over. As for being cruel to people. If it's just "something they've learnt" they can bloody well un-learn it! Just because the bigot is a little old lady doesn't let them off in my book.

Anyway, I want to see "The Truth About Straight Sex". What DO they get up to?? Is it true they only do it in one position on a Saturday night? ;P
 
  
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