BARBELITH underground
 

Subcultural engagement for the 21st Century...
Barbelith is a new kind of community (find out more)...
You can login or register.


Book Personals: Foucault's Pendulum. NO SPOILERS PLEASE.

 
 
Kit-Cat Club
11:16 / 23.04.02
I know I'm a lot further on in this than Barry Auckland, so I'm not going to say much about anything after the first fifty-odd pages - other than: what a funny book, the parts about occult authors are absolutely hysterical.

I am enjoying it immensely - it's just a huge game, isn't it? I was very struck (after a recent re-reading of some Invisibles tpbs) by the descriptions of the machines in the Paris museum - at one point Casaubon refers to them as 'archons'. I do wish I knew more about the hermetic and cabalah references (I seem to be able to cope with the general level of allusiveness in the text, though I am finding that a copy of Brewer's Phrase and Fable is a little help - I never knew that Temple in London is the site of yer actual Templar church, for example) - I am a bit lost with the Sefirot and so on (never made it past a couple of chapters of Yates' Occult Philosophy in the Elizabethan Age, suspect I should have another go at this). I am rather hoping that Eco will elucidate as the text progresses....

I'm also rather wondering whether the Pendulum isn't going to turn out to be a central metaphor for the text itself - one fixed point, which can be anywhere (and is therefore everywhere? V. confusing - I am no theologian).

There's an old thread on some of the connections between Foucault's Pendulum and the Invisibles here - some gnostic stuff in there too, and not many spoilers (as far as I can tell).
 
 
Baz Auckland
21:37 / 23.04.02
Up to page 61 as of the end of the bus ride tonight:

A great beginning, as the lovely conspiracy of it all has sucked me in. A lot better than The Island of the Day Before already! I obviously haven't read that far yet, but the side stories about Paris in '68 and Belbo's dream about a trumpet made me smile. It reminds me of 'V' by Thomas Pynchon in a way (conspiracy & incredibly entertaining side stories)

A lot of the kabbalah(sp?) references seem familiar, but unfortunately I don't know much about it all. Borges wrote a number of stories based on the 'True Name of God' and things like that, obviously Eco's read these as he quotes one of them at the beginning of chapter 6.

I actually read about it in one of Stoatie's Flex Mentello comics this morning. Apparently the speaking of the true name of god would give the speaker the power of God. Was this why you could never say YHVH out loud?

(My only wish for this book is that when the author inserts a quote of latin, hebrew, or even spanish, it would be great if there was a translation)

What is Brewer's Phrase and Fable exactly?
 
 
cusm
01:31 / 24.04.02
I love this book, I've read it several times. Eco is fantastic. He's also a genius, speakes several languages, and has the largest library on nmeonics in the world, I hear. He does know how to poke fun at the "occult world", I'll give him that. The introduction alone is a riot, and I think that really sets the tone for a lot of the humor he uses in the book itself.
 
 
Kit-Cat Club
07:41 / 24.04.02
Brewer's Phrase and Fable is a dictionary/encyclopaedia of... general stuff, including various classical myths (not a patch on Bullfinch for this though), the Rosicrucians, origins of the phrase 'to queer one's pitch', heraldic charges, nicknames of various regiments in the British Army, and so on. I have the recent edition (with foreword by fatbeard Pratchett) and somewhere a facsimile of the C19 edition which is even more amusing...
 
 
Kit-Cat Club
12:52 / 24.04.02
Going up to about p. 120 - still loads and loads of excellent stuff. I loved the bit where Casaubon goes to Garamond's offices and finds Belbo and Diotallevi discussing their pointless academic disciplines - it's like something out of Flann O'Brien. Casaubon's history of the Templars is great too - and I really like the way he is sceptical about them, but loves them anyway. I'm also curious to see how the stories of Belbo's 'running away' which Casaubon finds on Abulafia are going to play out in the narrative.

Incidentally, somewhere Belbo makes a connexion between Casuabon's name and that of Casaubon from Middlemarch - is there really a connexion between the two characters, or is it a subtle indication that Casaubon is a fictional construct of some sort? Can anyone tell me anything about the Casaubon in Middlemarch?

About YHVH - perhaps that is why you're not meant to speak it out loud (I always thought it would bring down the wrath of God on your head, but had no basis for this whatsoever). But then again, there's the list of 120 names of God which Casaubon prints out on Abulafia, so I suppose you'd have to know which was the right one (and isn't there an argument that the whole of the Torah is the name of God, or something?)
 
 
Cavatina
13:30 / 24.04.02
Early in the novel Eliot has her central ardent and intellectual character, Dorothea, marry the sterile, dry as dust Mr. Casaubon out of a need to devote herself to a noble cause. She sees herself devoting herself to him and "becoming strong in his strength and wisdom". (EEEEr Yuk) Casaubon's vocation is his research/writing on myth: "I feed too much on the inward sources; I live too much with the dead."
 
 
Kit-Cat Club
13:47 / 24.04.02
I second your 'Yuk'... thank you very much, that does seem to make a lot of sense.
 
 
deja_vroom
14:01 / 24.04.02
To me one of the best passages in when they explain how the publishing houses Garamond and Danunzio work. The bit about the Self Published Authors is really hilarious. I've finished it, though, so I won't be able to join the fun. There's giant lizards in the end, you know.. (runs)
 
 
Kit-Cat Club
14:09 / 24.04.02
Oh, is it Danunzio in the original? In my translation, the second house is called Manutius (which fits quite well with Garamond, Belbo, etc as they are all type founders - don't know about Danunzio though, will check). You are rights about the SPAs though. That bit is tops.
 
 
deja_vroom
16:50 / 24.04.02
not 100% sure, but surely isn't Manutius.
 
 
Baz Auckland
19:47 / 24.04.02
Up to page 120 as of 5pm tonight.

I think it adds a lot to the book that Cassaubon isnt a paranoid conspiracy nut...well, yet i guess. It makes it a much more....grounded(?) book and doesn't spin off (yet?) into wild fantasy... My favourite books seem to be realistic settings with incredible things happening to the characters (Pynchon, Borges, and Eco it seems).

I'll shut up about Borges soon, but he wrote a great story in which the True Name of God was encoded in the stripes on a tiger.

The bit with Belbo and Diotallevi arguing over whether Diotallevi is really Jewish killed me. Brewer's sounds like a fun book to have around. The fact that you know C. ends up in Paris, Belbo disappears, etc. has sucked me in... that and the fact that I've always enjoyed playing with numerology. 120/3*6*1344+666,etc. etc.

Who's Flann O'Brien? The name sounds vaguely familiar but I am clueless.
 
 
Cavatina
07:51 / 25.04.02
Flann O'Brien - Irish author of The third policeman, At Swim-two-birds and a couple of other novels, titles of which I can't remember. His narratives are complex, in some respects allegorical, and draw self-consciously upon very old Irish legends & myths e.g. The third policeman draws substantially on ideas of a Celtic other-world found in old texts such as the story of Oisin in Tir na nOg . Normal sequential time scales are also disrupted; there's play with fantasy, mirrors (borrowing perhaps from Lewis Carroll's Alice through the Looking Glass , other examples of infinite recession, and so on.

Dunno if any of that helps.
 
 
ephemerat
09:14 / 25.04.02
I read Foucalt's Pendulum fairly recently and was genuinely surprised by just how much fun it was. I was expecting something very dry and academic and instead found a book that simply loved playing with ideas and poking fun at a vast variety of intellectual poses (having done a Sociology degree, the bar-room, deconstructionist Marxists were also very funny and very telling). And of course, it simultaneously made some very important statements about the way we view knowledge and, and... okay, no spoilers! Nyurgh.

But yeah; great book.
 
 
Kit-Cat Club
12:27 / 25.04.02
Yes, that's Flann O'Brien... I was also thinking of a column he wrote, under the pseudonym Myles na cGopaleen, called 'Cruiskeen Lawn', and I think what I was reminded of, was the sections where he describes a book-handling service for those who want to appear erudite without having to actually read anything (the service involved adding marginalia, dog-earing, inserting arty leaflets as markers, etc). V. funny, especially when you connect it with the well-known practice of buying books by the yard to fill stately-home libraries etc.

Anyway, going up to p. 180 or so...this is the part with Colonel Ardenti, and the first part of Casaubon's meeting with Aglie. I suppose this is where the 'mystery' part of the plot begins - it's the first time we get an inkling of why Casaubon ended up waiting in the periscope in the Paris Museum - Ardenti's apparent disappearance, and then Belbo's peculiar encounter at the Picatrix happening with De Angelis. I thought Ardenti's lengthy exposition was absolutely joyous - the leaps of logic, the totally matter-of-fact assumption that what he was saying was completely obvious to anyone with half a brain when in fact he was talking the most transparent bilge (of course I expect it will turn out to be only partially bilge and Eco is cocking a snook at cynical types like me...). In fact Ardenti's style of argument reminded me strangely of some old threads on Barbelith... funnily enough.

I'll be interested to see how much the Brazilian setting recurs in the book. I'll also be interested to see how Aglie actually fits in (I am getting more of a sense of this now, but I am actually on p. 380, so it wouldn't be fair to say).

Jade - I looked on the net, but couldn't find a mention of Danunzio in connexion with the book, only Manutius - must just be one of those things. Oh, and I was completely wrong about Belbo being a type founder - that was Bembo. Duh.
 
 
deja_vroom
13:35 / 25.04.02
Funny... perhaps the brazilian version is the one with a different name for the SPA's publishing house...

By the way, my version of the book is really formal in its style, that sort of put me off a lil' bit, cos I could see all the fun that was being going on and at the same time the way it was presented was a little bit... stale. Is the english version up to date in terms of language or you can feel that - perhaps because Eco is an acknowledged intellectual, people feel the need to apply a patina of academicism to his writings, even if he's only taking the piss?
 
 
Kit-Cat Club
14:55 / 25.04.02
Well - because he's dealing with theory and pseudo-theory, and mocking (as ephemerat said) intellectual poses, it's not the most lush writing you'll ever come across - I doubt it is in Italian either, it's not that kind of book. But it's certainly not dryasdust, and is quite pacy. It's also worth considering that he's writing as Casaubon and so what we're getting is Casaubon's voice (though this may be meant to be an 'everyman' figure, it's a very specific academic sort of 'everyman').

Actually there's no translator named on my copy - perhaps Eco did it himself (though surely it would have taken aaages...).
 
 
Baz Auckland
20:59 / 25.04.02
Page 226!

This book is giving me the feeling that a lot of other things I've read and enjoyed on the same fun-conspiracy subject borrow a lot from the same sources and aren't as original as I believed. Ah well. Still enjoying this a lot. ....and just remembered the scene where Casaubon is reading about the Rosicurians and sees all the paralells, and Amparo states that they all just read the same books. The ancient conspiracy literature spawned the modern, which is all based on the same historical literature and therefore will have lots of similarities...

The conversation with the colonel was classic. I read the Brazillian section today and was quite interested as I knew (and still know) absolutely nothing about African religion and all the rest, except of course, the little bit I caught on Lonely Planet one day...

...does anyone know anything about the Sefirot? Did I miss the explanation or is it coming up? I realized with the listing at the beginning of chapter 34 that the section numbers correspond with the names of the 10 sefirot.

Classic moment of the day? Casaubon and Amparo whispering sweet gibberish to each other:

"You are my Atlanta Fugiens...."
"Oh my Turris Babel...."
"I want the Arcana Arcanissima, the Golden Fleece, pale et rose comme un coquillage marin...."
"Sssh....Silentium post clamores"
 
 
Kit-Cat Club
12:54 / 26.04.02
I thought that bit was rather cringeworthy actually.. I sort of huffed and thought that if anyone tried that kind of chat with me I'd probably thump them. I did think it was a bit rough on Casaubon to have Amparo change her mind about their (previously apprently entirely satisfactory) relationship as a result of hre experience at the umbanda. I also felt that the character of Amparo was treated quite badly in a way - introduced into the narrative solely to make the point that even intelligent women can't control their bodies (and she is probably only a black woman so that this can be seen as some kind of native spirit thing - witness the German woman who cannot achieve the state of possession). When Casaubon is affected by the umbanda, his response is primarily intellectual... I thought that episode was a bit dodgy. Mind you, Eco is not very good at women, if you ask me...

... see also Lorenza Pellegrini, who seems to be some sort of take on the virgin/whore dichotomy. And she is mean to Belbo, and I like Belbo... though Eco seems to be flagging Belbo's problems with women, and this may well be important later on (the whole Dr Wagner episode which Casaubon finds on Abulafia springs from Belbo's love-life, f'rexample).

Going up to p. 300, this is where we get the brilliant description of the SFAs at Manutius, and Signor Garamond's great idea of the series of occult and hermetic texts. Every time I see a small ad saying 'Authors! We publish your manuscripts!' I shall be thinking of Manutius, and every time I go into a remainders bookshop I'll think of Garamond's illustrated history of metals - genius. I also like dthe ludicrous dispute between Bramanti and the Frenchman which Belbo, Diotallevi and Casaubon overhear when they visit Aglie, and Aglie's numerology and knowledge of the weird stuff the authors keep coming out with - the Egyptians knowing about electricity, and so on.

I am so intrigued by the multiple narrative strands and how it is all going to fit togehter in the end.

The Sefirot - there's usually a little bit, no more than a paragraph, at the end of each section, which says something about each one and sometimes how they follow on from each other, and it sort of describes the progression of Casaubon's story. So, at the end of the section 'Hesed', where Amparo is about to be possessed by the spirit, Eco writes:

'Now I know that Hesed is not only the Sefirah of grace and love. As Diotalevi said, it is also the moment of expansion of the divine substance, which spreads out to the edge of infinity. It is the care of the living for the dead, but someone must also have observed that it is the care of the dead for the living.'

... which fits in with the section, all about his relationship with Amparo, and about the umbanda and the candomble, as well as the narrative in general. I think.
 
 
Baz Auckland
07:03 / 27.04.02
Coincidentally found in my inbox this morning:

Have a passion for writing?
We GUARANTEE That a Professional Editor Will Read Your Manuscript.

We are pleased to announce this unprecedented
opportunity for aspiring authors.

Want to learn more?

target=_new>Click Here

Brought to you by InsideSessions and Penguin Putnam, Inc., one of the largest publishing companies in the world, Writing And Publishing: The Inside Story, is an Internet-based writing program taught by over 50 of today's most influential writers, editors, and publishing professionals. Nowhere else can you learn from such renowned authors - including Kurt Vonnegut, Tom Clancy, Nora Roberts, Amy Tan and many more.


  • Learn how to begin and how to find your voice.
  • Discover how to find an agent and submit your manuscript.
  • Learn what you need to know about the business of publishing.
  • A professional editor will read your work.
  • Learn at your own pace, any time, anywhere. Class is always in
    session!

    Writing and Publishing: The Inside Story also includes a FREE CD-ROM that provides broadband-quality access from a standard dial-up connection.

    Copyright 2001, InsideSessions
 
 
Lionheart
18:29 / 27.04.02
Just so you know..

YHWH is not the true name of God. YHWH is the tetragrammaton (hope I spelled that right.) It is the word used to represent God's name in text and out loud.

Not that God's real name is unknown.

I have it written down in one of my notebooks actually. I got it from some religious encyclopedia.
 
 
Baz Auckland
21:26 / 28.04.02
Up to page 390 now.

All that I had heard of Eco before reading The Island of the Day Before was that he was a sexist bastard. After having the lack of women characters in book pointed out to me many times, I think this is the first time I've actually noticed it. There does seem to be a lack of positive women characters, but as the same friend told me, "only men would think up [secret societies/conspiracies] in the first place." Point: Lia's explanation of how numerology and the rest is just based on the bodies, but the Garamond 3 are too dim to see it.

I feel sort of sorry for the characters. They seem like innocent old men, even though they're not that old in the book, I can't help but picture them being grey and elderly. Belbo seems especially innocent with his fixation on the lost opportunities of childhood and his 'game' with Pelligrini. It's sad to see that they're almost just doing all this for fun, but end up caught in something terrible (I'm assuming. It would be nice to be wrong)

I'm really enjoying the destruction of all the conspiracies. This is the first time I've actually read something regarding them that didn't support them. (You mean the Illuminati DONT rule the world???)

Thanks for the explanation of the Sefirot. I seemed to not be taking in the last paragraphs. One of those cases where you read something but have to go back 2 or 3 times because you really weren't paying attention.
 
 
Kit-Cat Club
12:43 / 29.04.02
I am nearrrrly finished now - p. 602, should kill it tonight. Blimey, what a damned thick, square book... but still very enjoyable, though I did get a bit bogged down in the part (very long) where the Garamond Three develop their own Plan (the one which lands Casaubon in the museum in the first place).

So, going up to c. p. 460: it is so full of cross-references and allusions that it becomes impossible to detangle in a lucid fashion. Now, I know, obviously, that Eco and the G3 (at first at any rate) are mimicking the style of the occult SFAs, making these leaps of logic and storing a vast wealth of information which makes no sense to anyone else; and also that this is in itself a mockery of the way in which some (bad) academic historians work - extrapolating wildly from minimal evidence, and making untenable conjectures. I can also see that Eco has set up the characters of Casaubon, Diotallevi and Belbo to be perfectly susceptible to the joys of this kind of intellectual game - so that they can enjoy both the mocking construction of a pseudo-Plan, and simultaneously revel in making a Plan which fits the facts better than anyone else's, and which is more grandiose than anyone else's (well, except perhaps Ardenti's business about Nepal). It's easy to see how seductive it might be. BUT it's not easy to read, and I think the book might have been less unwieldy if Eco hadn't spelled it out in such depth.

Lia is perhaps the only decent female character Eco has ever written, though it still seems to be a bit 'women are earth mothers and therefore have a greater connection with the physical world than these cerebral men'; on the other hand, at least Eco is making the cerebral men look faintly ridiculous. Lorenza Pellegrini continues to be a cipher (perhaps because she is not 'grounded' in a sexual relationship which might result in children? A wild surmise, but because we never definitely see her in a sexual relationship with a male character, perhaps her sexuality is more threatening because she is a free agent - hence Casaubon's feelings of desire and disgust. She is not 'ownable' in the way that Lia is, and in the way that Amparo was before she was possessed).

The ramifications of the Plan are just so insane, though. The telluric currents are great. That bit where they reconstruct a motor-car as an embosiment of the Sefirot is fantastic.
 
 
Kit-Cat Club
12:29 / 30.04.02
I have in fact finished this now. Where are you, Barry?
 
 
Baz Auckland
14:49 / 01.05.02
Page 460. Haven't had a chance to read much in the last 2 days. Give me until Friday before posting your final thoughts!

Right now the 3 are getting carried away with their plans, and it is quite entertaining and sobering regarding my previously-etched-in-stone beliefs about conspiracies.
 
 
Kit-Cat Club
14:41 / 02.05.02
V. well, will wait for you...
 
 
Baz Auckland
21:46 / 03.05.02
Okay! Done! You go first:
 
 
Kit-Cat Club
16:22 / 08.05.02
Beast... I have read several things in the intervening period and am struggling to come up with anything reasonable.

Umm... I suppose it was inevitable that the novel would tie up that way, once the Garamond Three had got themselves so ridiculously entwined in their Plan, but it did start seeming a little too far-fetched, especially when it gets to the grand ceremony at the Pendulum (and why on earth do the members of the Tres replace the museum's pendulum with an older one which is too big for the space? Are they stupid, or what?). Annoying that Lorenza comes to a sacrificial end - fallen woman, redemption, blah blah.

In some ways it seems the novel is about insanity - Wagner tells Casaubon that he is mad, and I wasn't sure whether the Plan had driven Casaubon mad so that he imagined everything, and went to seclude himself at Belbo's villa in his madness; or whether the Plan had driven them all (Casaubon, Belbo, Diotallevi, Aglie, Garamond, Lorenza, the works) mad so that they caused things to happen according to it when they need not have done... I thought that the way in which all the characters which Casaubon encountered during the novel in connexion with the press and the Plan turned up at the ceremony indicated that Casaubon might have a persecution complex or similar condition.

Belbo's story, the tale of him playing the trumpet at the funeral and that being his one perfect moment - I thought that was a bit overdone; and surely his action at the seremony, the action of saying 'no', belies Casaubon's assumption that playing the trumpet was the one key moment of his life, which Belbo himself had somehow failed to recognise - almost denying that people can fashion their own lives (though of course I can see what Eco is saying - that we often fail to recognise key moment sin our own narratives until years later).

But apart from that I enjoyed it very much indeed, and thought it a very entertaining romp. Looking forwasrd to the translation of Eco's last novel too...
 
 
Baz Auckland
23:03 / 09.05.02
It's been a week or so now(?). Sorry for the delay, but one of my flatmates spilled coffee all over Stoatie's keyboard, thereby killing it.

I did enjoy the book overall, and it did cure me (i'm sure only temporarily) of my ridiculous obsession with spooky garbage. It did help put all those damn theories in a more rational light.

I was annoyed with the end, if only because Cassaubon didnt even try to help his friend, or try and save him from being hung. It's never even alluded too, his cowardice(?) or whoknowswhat. He mentions later how Belbo chose to die this noble death, etc. But that still doesnt excuse C. from attempting to save him.

I liked how either the main characters either came up with the truth, or Alibe just liked the theory so much he got all his friends to steal it and becaome, thereby adding to the silliness of it all.
 
  
Add Your Reply