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Warfare Alteratives

04:03 / 20.09.01

Over the past week, on several different forums I have been witness to ALOT of Anti US involvement in warfare

With subects including "The US shouldn't do anything Violent" "It will only serve to Escalate the level of Violence" and so on..

But as yet I have yet to see any real suggestions as to what should be done RATHER than attack...

So my question is: What would you do?

06:54 / 20.09.01

Ideally, I'd like to see the US use this moment to wake up and start making reparations to the various peoples it has hurt over the years.

Of course, I'm pretty sure that they won't like my idea. So I'll settle for a compromise: if the US feels it must flex its military muscles in response to this, do it by taking troops into Afghanistan: not to make war or to 'bomb them back to the stone age' but to remove the landmines from the farmland, end the rule of the Taleban and give the land back to the people who have hung on grimly for 22 years.

Purely in terms of seeing justice done, the various intelligence agencies will, I'm sure, do everything they can, but I think Shrubya wants to get ultraviolent on some poor schmuck to ease America's pain and postpone the date when it finally confronts its imperialism. But airstrikes against Afghanistan aren't gonna do a damned thing. And if the US begins a sustained campaign of war in the region, you will not *believe* how messy it's gonna get. Wish it was otherwise.

Just to put this in a UK context for the moment: when the Omagh bomb exploded killing 29, did the UK government bomb Ireland? even a little bit? no- there was a recognition, and one wishes it had come 30 years earlier, that the *only* viable response was to mourn the dead and continue trying to achieve peace.

08:40 / 20.09.01

quote:Originally posted by Naked Flame:
And if the US begins a sustained campaign of war in the region, you will not *believe* how messy it's gonna get. Wish it was otherwise.

There's been stuff in The Guardian this week on just how messy a sustained campaign could get. They had quotes from a Russian who was in there last time - something like "This is going to make Vietnam look like a picnic". Also had a full feature titled "Fortress Afghanistan" from an ex-SAS guy who was training them during the Russian invasion. It was pretty much "don't do it guys".

Can't reference the articles 'cos the've just gone out with the rubbish...Damn.

[ 20-09-2001: Message edited by: Wheaty Goodness ]

We're The Great Old Ones Now

08:49 / 20.09.01

Received this just now:

quote:Bin Laden is trying to create a "holy war" between Islam and the western world.

Dropping bombs on a hungry, tired, impoverished and suppressed people will not win war against terrorism. The Talaban was not elected and does not represent the people of Afghanistan.

Bin Laden is an extremely wealthy man, but
his countrymen are starving...Does he help to feed them?

Imagine if the USA dropped provisions instead of bombs on hungry people in Afghanistan, would this not make a beautiful statement? Would this not be a war won, a war against separation and hatred? It is most likely that the Talaban will not allow people to eat food from the USA, but it would have a much more positive effect than the increased hatred that Bin Laden is fighting for.

I don't have all the answers and would like Bin Laden brought to justice. What I do know is that a major offensive against Afghanistan is going to be a terrible mistake.

Please copy and paste this petition and send it on to as many people as you know - QUICKLY! If you are the 200th person on the list, please email it to president@whitehouse.gov Lets help to prevent the third world war starting!

11:50 / 20.09.01

UK gives £25m refugee aid quote:The international development secretary, Clare Short, yesterday responded to the mounting refugee crisis in war and famine-threatened Afghanistan by pledging an extra £25m in humanitarian aid.
Ms Short, who spoke out against indiscriminate military strikes on Afghanistan, described the situation in the overflowing refugee camps along the borders of neighbouring countries "as the consequence of 22 years of war and four years of drought".

Also, not strictly on the topic, but some background as to what Warfare could mean

In the Death Zone (the report from the SAS guy)

[ 20-09-2001: Message edited by: Wheaty Goodness ]

11:55 / 20.09.01

at last, something positive. Let's hear it for sanity.

12:45 / 20.09.01

quote:Even before the attacks, aid agencies issued dire warnings that Afghanistan was heading for disaster. A three year drought on top of two decades of war and Soviet occupation has left more than 5m people - a quarter of the population - threatened by starvation. Afghanistan facing humanitarian disaster

More -
quote:Large families were sharing one piece of bread a day. They could not leave because there was no transport. Aid agencies had hoped to get supplies to villages like Barkhol before they were cut off but the US threat means that this will almost certainly be impossible.

How much was Bush's anti-terrorist budget again? (I can't find a ref)

[ 20-09-2001: Message edited by: Wheaty Goodness ]

13:25 / 20.09.01

Martin Amis has suggested carpet bombing afghanistan with food and mobile phones; its cheaper and probably more effective at winning hearts and minds than the traditional napalm and high ex.

I wonder about the the six richest people being worth more than the six poorest countries (including afghanistan).

Couldn't we just redistribute?

Wouldn't get rid of the psychotically violent but it would stop them attracting many followers from those who get fucked up by what we quaintly called the military industrial complex.

14:00 / 20.09.01

An interesting form of capitalism...You can get rich, but not too rich, or you get...redistrubuted.

Would that include Bill Gates?

Sorry, I thought I was above a cheap poke at Gates...apparently not.

[ 20-09-2001: Message edited by: Wheaty Goodness ]

06:36 / 21.09.01

It's the millions of cheap jokes around the world that add up one huge joke.

Thank you for using Microsoft.

01

14:40 / 21.09.01

The only acceptable response is to target the purpetrators and their sympathizers.
No one wants to see more innocent people suffer. Especially if they've been already suffering from 20 years of war and a brutally repressive regime already. However, this can't go unpunished. "Traditional" forms of war won't work. Ie. carpet bombing.

They have act with more stealth. Take out the rings while avoiding the loss of innocent life. It's completely feasable. They have the training and technology. Fifty years and billions of dollars spent would make you think as much.
However. The fallout of the whole thing is what I'm afraid of. "Operation Homeland Protection" has an eerily sci-fi totalitarian ring to it. I might be off to Montana...

In the short term, I can't believe that I have agreed with so many Republicans in my life. So far it seems as if they realize the situation that they're in and haven't John Wayned it up. Yet. Colin Powell, I feel, has had some pretty intelligent things to say. He was one of the first in the government to denounce domestic attacks on Muslims, and to come right out and say that they weren't at war with Islam. Then there's Gulliani. I think the French Press said it best in their headlines "Mayor Hero". So far, (and I still can't believe I'm saying this...) I agree with the way that they've handled this.
However,this can soon change. Last night's speech I fear will only serve to make things worse. The demands were too heavy handed and they leave little if any room for a peaceful soloution.

autopilot disengaged

07:29 / 22.09.01

void: you're right about the scarcity of alternatives, but i think that's mostly 'cause we're all, "no! george! over here! geeooorrge...awaaay from the button, george, c'mon...healing breaths george..."

but meanwhile, just in the last couple of days i have started to hear some constructive advice. i've posted up the calm and considered verdict of ZNet in the spanky new 'a sane response?' thread, and have added John Pilger's beautifully-reasoned proposal to the chomsky thread.