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Poo Your Pants!

17:21 / 18.04.02

Think Imperial March theme from Star Wars, as you read.

17:28 / 18.04.02

will - thinking of the imperial march theme while i was reading *that* just made it seem ludicrous! tho i can't make up my mind as to whether dubya is vader or the evil emperor.

blair is definately one of the lackeys that will eventually get offed by one of vader's dark side throat grips.

17:36 / 18.04.02

but coupled with the title, the Star Wars reference is just making me think of Grand Moff Tarkin's "Evacuate? In our moment of triumph?"

17:49 / 18.04.02

I'm glad it takes the sting out of it.

'A fully operational Deathstar'

18:36 / 18.04.02

Heh. I just can't help but laugh at the thought of Dubya saying "As you wish..my master".

21:58 / 18.04.02

Unlike NORAD, Northcom will be made up of American military personnel only. No Canadian forces will be assigned to it.

Bye bye Canada, and Cuba. Please remind me to find a way to get a permanent EU visa.

Harold Washington died for you

01:11 / 19.04.02

Actually it mentioned that the HQ of Northcom would be Peterson AFB. Along with NORAD I think Peterson is the HQ of USSPACECOM and the Air Force Space Command. That is, the US military's NASA, NORAD, and Imperial Navy. I think they are going to tie this in somehow to the nascent missile defense shield, the real Star Wars.

Canada has no reason or right to be a part of the US military's gig. And we coulda taken Cuba to the house a long, long time ago.

08:24 / 19.04.02

Morocco Mule, are you daft? When a proposed military command is to cover territories other than those belonging to the nation operating the command - such as

the Northern Command, a new military zone stretching across North America, including Canada, the U.S., Mexico and the Caribbean.

- can you not see how inappropriate it is that those other (sovereign) territories should be given no chance to be involved (at the very least) in that command?

Just because the US can do it, doesn't mean it should.

gozer the destructor

10:17 / 19.04.02

found this bit the most ominous

The establishment of the new zone means every part of the globe will be covered by the U.S. military, he said.

im reminded of the roman empire...

11:40 / 19.04.02

The Empire never ended, eh?

wembley can change in 28 days

15:27 / 19.04.02

Canada has no reason or right to be a part of the US military's gig. And we coulda taken Cuba to the house a long, long time ago.

Hello, sorry, must have my glass eyes in upside down today. If the US military has right and/or reason to use Canadian airspace and soil to throw tantrums, I'll eat my hat. Granted, Canada's military includes two ducks each with a slingshot and a PEZ dispenser, but just because we speak the same language as our cousins to the south, that doesn't give them the right to own our asses. This is starting to worry me a bit, remembering what I learned about the cold war in high school. It dawned on my sixteen-year-old head one day that the US has a real penchant for waging war anywhere but on its own soil, and then fucking off back home when they've levelled the area. And (warning, uncontrollable cheap shot ahead) I suppose we're all getting prepared to watch US bombs fall on Canadians.

In fact, most of everything these days is starting to worry me more than just a bit. I think I'm starting to believe I'll see a major war in my lifetime, and I'm not necessarily cool with that.

15:47 / 19.04.02

Yeah wembley, I'm getting that teenage cold war feeling again, and it's just as horrible this time.

This really does scare me a great deal. Maybe New Zealand is looking like a good option for moving house. I begin to feel that I am too fucking close to a lot of crazy people in high places with big guns. If I wanted the US military looking out for me, I'd move to the US. Though the other article with the responses from Canadian politicians really paints our political spectrum well. NDP (Socialists) are like "Hey, fuck off, this is bullshit", Liberals are all "Yeah, whatever, let them do it, it doesn't concern us" and the Alliance (Ultra Conservative) are "Hey, let's support them, they're cool."

Where's my Rhino party when you need them?

Zoom.

p.s. Morocco Mole, if we've no right to be part of your gig, keep your fucking gig off our soil.

16:52 / 19.04.02

I miss the Rhino party.

"If elected we will tow Newfoundland out into the middle of the Atlantic"

New Zealand? Hmmm... New Thread Time!

16:57 / 19.04.02

Damn, why couldn't I live in a world where they won?

Zoom.

Harold Washington died for you

05:36 / 20.04.02

It is simply a command infrastucture with a General or Admiral sitting in a HQ in charge of all the (important words coming up) US MILITARY IN THE GEOGRAPHICAL AREA. That means Northcom will be in charge of all US MILITARY in North America (except for probably the Pentagon and the Dulce alien labs). Hm, so not so much for the invade Canada operation, but having all the armed forces flying the stars and stripes in this region of the world under one commander. Make sense?

A new major command does not mean the US gets to conquer everything in the area. The UK is in the European command. Has been for a long time. Does that mean the Marines are about to storm the beaches of Wales or something? NO!

I know it's easy to USA bash but think rationally for a second. What would be the possible benefit of (chuckle) invading Canada? Last I heard the Weapon X project had been ended and that John Candy movie was mostly fiction.

08:13 / 20.04.02

I know it's easy to USA bash but think rationally for a second. What would be the possible benefit of (chuckle) invading Canada?

Water. The US is set to run out in 20 or so years, and Canada hasn't been to keen on exporting it so far. Just one thought.

Info Here

15:28 / 20.04.02

From the articles:

The establishment of the new zone means every part of the globe will be covered by the U.S. military, he said

But if those interests diverge it could lead to unexpected military, financial and diplomatic issues.

Okay, for the first one, why is that a good thing? I mean, I can see why Rumsfeld thinks so, but why does anyone else? I do not want my ass covered by American military. Let's imagine, just as a crazy scenario, that someone attacked Canada. You know, landed in Newfoundland and started invading, or there was an act of terrorism perpetrated against one of our cities. I know the invasion thing is far-fetched, but bear with me here. How long do you think it would take Northcom to land troops, fly planes over, regardless of what the Canadian government said? Why must the US feel it's their responsibility to set up a global military prescence. It just pisses people off, but they can't do anything about it.

And for the second one, which is in reference to the respective interests of Canada and the US, what happens then? What happens when we have a conflict of interests? Can we stand up to the US? Why force a situation where that might even occur? It seems like idiocy to me. I realize that people in the gov't and military command structure are really paranoid right now, but why drag everyone else into it?

Originally posted by Morocco Mole:

"The UK is in the European command. Has been for a long time."

My question is why does the US even need to have a European command anymore? Perhaps it was set up after WW2 to make sure no more upstart nations tried conquering everything, but is that likely to happen now? Peace-keeping? Try listening to the U.N. for once and be a part of those taskforces.

I've seen no evidence in these articles that the governments of Canada or Mexico were consulted about this. Indeed, Chretien's response sounds like he wasn't consulted. Think about what would happen if this had been a Canadian or Mexican initiative. The US gov't and military would have told us to fuck off. Why the double standard?

Zoom.

wembley can change in 28 days

17:25 / 20.04.02

Okay, first off, I think most Canadians know that there aren't any plans afoot in the US to invade our dear cold nation. That is not the point. It's a matter of having sovereignty over our own space, and our military (haw haw) operations. I know it simply means more integration between US and Canadian forces. I know that practically speaking, this is in some ways a good thing, as fewer fuckups could occur if the right hand and left hand are both wearing the same kind of glove, and after all, the US and Canada have rather similar interests. The only thing that irks me - and even though it could be irrational, it's still there - is the fact that the glove is covered in stars and stripes. The fact that we are so close to the US that they can simply say "right, you're part of a military zone with us," and we have no choice but to go "uh...okay." Just in the same way that the US seems to be able to bully around the UN and just about everyone else in the world. What if someday Canadians decide they don't dig what the US is up to? How much say do we even have in our own future? I'm down with the Captain on this one.

17:34 / 20.04.02

A new major command does not mean the US gets to conquer everything in the area.

oh, weelll, that's alright then. You folks carry on. Sorry for the misunderstanding..

and that John Candy movie was mostly fiction.

ditto.

18:19 / 20.04.02

Is there any way the thread topic can be changed to reflect what's in here?

Zoom.

Harold Washington died for you

23:48 / 20.04.02

I'll try again. This is not a move towards US hegemony (don't think so anyway). It is an internal reorganization. It means all the US military already in North America,99.9% of which are in the USA, which is part of North America, will answer to one commander who in turn answers to the Joint Chiefs, Secretary of Defense and the President.

Canadian soldiers don't answer to this guy because they are not in the US military. By the same token the Canadian government has no say in the goings on of Northcom, besides the usual diplomatic channels with the US civilian government, because Canada is not in charge of the US military.

The commander of Northcom does not have the right to do whatever he pleases in Mexico except within the boundries of US military bases in Mexico. The theater commands are also in charge of any Navy ships sailing legally in international waters in the region in question. The soldeirs in Northcom were already here, doing the same jobs. They just have a new boss now.

The USA did not have soverign control over anything except US soil, and don't now. I'm no military expert, but I'd guess that nothing has changed with military policy towards North America in general since Tuesday. Were there US jets using Canada as a countrywide bombing range Tuesday? Unless something completely ass backwards occurs in our relations it won't happen tomorrow.

As to the question if Canada will be invaded (I was being flip, there are a ton of reasons to take over Canada if one were willing) and the question if the US should have military bases outside the country, I'll leave that for another thread.

07:15 / 21.04.02

This is why I no longer trust America

...and also because of their actions in, but not limited to Chile, Panama, Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam, Mexico, Nicaragua, Colombia, Cuba...

Americans, of course, I have nothing against. The USA is not the target of jealousy. Ever since I heard Bush say that I have been trying to understand it. America is given a bad rep because it could be a hell of a lot better, especally for a country based on such ideals.