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The (new) Barbelith Tarot Index

 
  

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cusm
15:28 / 10.04.04
Nothing to do? Why not troll back through the tarot threads and add your interpretations to them!
 
 
Quantum
02:49 / 05.11.06
*bump*
 
 
EmberLeo
08:06 / 05.11.06
I have written monologues (or notes towards monologues) for Oracles from the Living Tarot for several of the trumps. If folks are interested I can post them in applicable cards, or I can just post links to where they are posted in my LJ...

--Ember--
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
09:37 / 05.11.06
Nah, post 'em in thread. I'd like to see that.
 
 
EmberLeo
20:04 / 05.11.06
Okay, I've posted what I've got in the way of OLT monologues for the Empress, the Chariot, Judgement, Death, the Hierophant, and the Magician.

I notice, however, that only two of them actually get bumped up in the Temple index?

--Ember--
 
 
EmberLeo
20:05 / 05.11.06
*blinks*

And I am bemused that the two that actually show up in the index are the two I have actually performed for a live audience... How odd.

--Ember--
 
 
Frank Fress
00:49 / 06.11.06
I have also added my interpretations to the Tower and Death. I guess a Mwahahaha! would be fitting.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
12:01 / 06.11.06
Oh bugger. Ember, you've stumbled across one of our board glitches. During the last boardquake but one, every single Temple thread got duplicated and the mods (mostly cusm, IIRC) had to go and delete them one at a time. However, deleted threads on Barbelith don't disappear from the internet, they just vanish from the front page. You've replied to the deleted versions and that's why the threads aren't showing up. You need to find the twin threads and post to those. Gahh.
 
 
EmberLeo
17:42 / 06.11.06
Err... The Tarot index needs to be fixed so that following the links results in the correct threads - my suggestion is actually that the updated link not replace the old link, but sit beside it, with the old one still there and functional, and, if possible, written in strikeout.

I'll be happy to repost my responses to the correct threads, and will do my best to locate them.

--Ember--
 
 
EmberLeo
18:25 / 06.11.06
Okay, I've found two Death card threads, and cross-posted my monologue to both, and neither has bumped....

http://www.barbelith.com/topic/2126
http://www.barbelith.com/topic/1707

Now what?

--Ember--
 
 
Quantum
13:38 / 07.11.06
Hmm, not sure. I'm tempted to start a new thread with links to both old ones but it seems clumsy.

Mind you, it's been five years, it could be worth starting a frash Tarot thread for general discussion, and filling the first few posts full of links to the old threads and favoured excerpts (like Fool's amazing pics f'rinstance).
 
 
grant
17:23 / 07.11.06
Psst! Use the wiki! If necessary, *fix* the wiki! (But I don't know if it'll be necessary.)
 
 
Quantum
17:46 / 07.11.06
The what-now? Wicky? Ah yes, that thingummy, good idea.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
12:19 / 08.11.06
ARRRGH. Now what? Why, now I cry and tear out my hair. I'm going to the Policy to see if this can be resolved.
 
 
Quantum
14:47 / 08.11.06
see if this can be resolved

WITH A BATTLEAXE!
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
14:57 / 08.11.06
Well, I was thinking more of being resolved with an undelete from Tom. But I'm sure your way works too.
 
 
Quantum
16:19 / 08.11.06
Sorry, all this talk of Death brings out the Barbarian in me. You'd rather Goth poetry?
 
 
EmberLeo
08:40 / 20.03.07
Hmm, could we perhaps have a Layouts thread added to this index?

Also: The way I read the Tarot doesn't involve pre-determined layouts, but rather an open-space sort of grid where the querant can place any number of cards anywhere they see fit (face down) and I will read them relative to the center and eachother. I would love to share this with folks, if they're interested.

--Ember--
 
 
electric monk
11:49 / 20.03.07
They are. Fire away!
 
 
Haloquin
14:06 / 20.03.07
Someone mentioned upthread the idea of a pdf or somesuch file of the salient points and artwork for this, did that ever happen?
 
 
EmberLeo
06:39 / 21.03.07
The way I read Tarot cards for other people is a somewhat flexible process.

I set the space, if necessary, and shuffle the deck a couple times, flipping half the deck over, to make sure the reversals vary, and to clear the previous reading. Then I hand the deck to the querant to shuffle a few more times while they focus on their question. I cut the deck, and then instruct them to place however many cards seem necessary (or, if I'm doing this for a party, I'll give them an appropriate number), wherever they feel moved to place them, as long as they are face down and remember that the reading should be facing me. I then turn the cards over myself, sideways to preserve reversals.

I have noticed a few things about this:

Folks who have never had a reading before at all are rather variable. If they're brave they'll take me at my word and put the cards wherever they feel like it. If they're concerned about "doing it right" they'll lay out cards in a roughly Celtic Cross layout pattern because they've seen pictures of it, and think that's "about right".

Folks who are learning the Tarot themselves, but don't feel competent yet tend to put down either a three card layout or a proper Celtic Cross. If they do so, I ask them if they want me to read the cards according to a Celtic Cross layout, or according to the method I usually use. Most of them shrug and say I'm the reader and may do as I see fit.

Folks who know plenty about the Tarot tend to put the cards down wherever seems appropriate, but not touching eachother, and always straight to the grid. They may put a card sideways, or put one card across another, but they almost never go diagonally, or overlap, or anything like that unless their eyes are closed.

Folks who know divination, but not the Tarot - especially if they know Runes - tend to close their eyes and put cards wherever feels right, at any angle, overlapping or not, whatever.

Folks who think they know all there is to know about the Tarot, and want to test me do deliberately weird shit like place a card halfway across the room.

It's those last two categories that have forced me to expand my understanding of this free-form layout system I originally learned from my parents.

---------------

The system itself:

The original system is simply this. Time is the horizontal axis. Most folks read left-to-right. I read right-to-left. I don't know why, but I've always thought about time backwards to most folks I know. Number lines gave me trouble at first for the same reason. *shrugs* Distance from the center signifies how long. I discourage folks from placing cards all the way across the room by pointing out that 200 years from now isn't exactly relevant to their question.

The vertical axis was originally taught to me simply as Subconcious below Concious. I have expanded it into 5 layers. Top down: Spiritual, Mental, Physical/Practical, Emotional, Instinctual. You may notice that both Spiritual and Instinctual are intuitive states that sort of wrap around. Most readings are 3-4 levels at most.

Any crossed card should be treated as a Signifier.

For diagonal cards direction of tilt indicates relationships with cards they are "pointing" towards.

Touching cards are related to the same specific moment/aspect of the issue being discussed.

Cards stacked on top of eachother show depth of perception. The topmost card shows the surface appearance, and so on down for motivations hidden from outside observers, down into motivations hidden from the self, and other underlying factors.

As usual, clarification can be added to any reading by placing extra cards near or on top of cards that aren't making sense. Often I will clarify the connection between two cards by placing another card sideways or diagonally between them.

As for reading the cards themselves:

Court cards always refer to actual people, though not necessarily humans. The querant is a person, so court cards may refer to whatever is significant about the querant in the context of the reading.

I do read reversals. They often add a negative spin, but more often indicate that something isn't quite what it seems to be (the usual upright meaning of the card being how things seem), or else a twist - possibly ironic - on the usual meaning of the card. Diagonal cards may be given reversals according to which way is more downward. Horizontal cards are never given reverse meanings.

Lots of Trumps indicate that a reading is either about a major period of change (presumably in the Querants life, but possibly in the subject), or that the question is on a Spiritual topic. I make a point of NOT asking what the question was until after I've read through the cards once.

I think that's everything...

--Ember--
 
 
Haloquin
16:50 / 21.03.07
Ember, do you explain the general idea of time horizontal and conscious/subconscious to the person before the layout? I'm assuming not, and that the discouraging people from looking 200 years in the future is done if they do things like that.

Have you ever used this for looking past-wards, to ancestral issues?

Thank you for sharing, its fascinating, and I can see it yeilding interesting results.
 
 
EmberLeo
18:20 / 21.03.07
Ember, do you explain the general idea of time horizontal and conscious/subconscious to the person before the layout? I'm assuming not, and that the discouraging people from looking 200 years in the future is done if they do things like that.

Have you ever used this for looking past-wards, to ancestral issues?


You assume correctly - although I tend to end up explaining the layout process as I read, I don't explain ahead of time, and only point out the distance-from-center issue if they actually make a move to put a card somewhere weird.

I haven't yet used this to look into the distant past, but I see no reason why I couldn't. In the course of a normal reading, however, it's more likely the Ancestor would show up as a Court Card affecting the querant now.

--Ember--
 
 
Quantum
22:01 / 21.03.07
Thanks for that description Ember- do you always use a freeform spread? I ask because I reckon the key to good readings is to use the same form a lot and get to grips with it. I like your methods of dealing with uorthodox patterns there like the piles, that's interesting.
I don't read reversed myself, but do you find you get a lot of reversed cards in your readings?
I guess we should start a spread thread to discuss reading techniques- I wonder if there's an old one...
 
 
EmberLeo
21:38 / 23.03.07
What's wrong with using this thread for reading techniques? It's a meta discussion to the Tarot, is it not?

Do you always use a freeform spread?

Not always, but most of the time - it's my default.

The second most common layout I use is 8 or 12 cards in a circle, with a querant card (and possibly a crossing card) in the center, to represent a year. I use 8 cards if it's a Holiday reading for Samhain or somesuch, where each card is a spoke on the Wheel of the Year, and 12 cards if it's a Birthday reading, where each card is 1 month or Zodiac sign.

I'm also willing to create a layout on the fly by some other critera if it seems needful, at which point it depends on what I'm asking about. But I only do that sort of thing if I can chat with the querant about the nature of their question ahead of time. This may be what happens if the first reading indicates the need for a second, clarifying reading in a different format.

One model for such a reading is when there are several distinct options the querant is facing, and they need to make a choice. Then I'll make a multiple roads reading, either with the Querant card at one end, or with the Querant in the middle, and then one path of cards per option.

My student and I worked out a useful layout for Psychological work, where we laid out the cards in rows, with 1 card turned sideways relative to the others. Each row represented an obstacle the Querant is facing, and the sideways card represented the passage through that obstacle.

I ask because I reckon the key to good readings is to use the same form a lot and get to grips with it.

Hmmm, I think that's definitely one key to good readings, but to call it the key assumes we all think the same way, which isn't my experience. I find that having spent time (a good 10 years now) with that freeform layout method, I have sufficient understanding of how the cards interact with layouts in general that I can change things according to current needs.

I have found, however, that one must be pretty clear on what the need IS to be able to create a useful layout. That's the catch, really, and that's where having generally useful pre-set layouts helps.

And checking out layouts invented by others to address specific needs is definitely useful. It's not reasonable to expect myself to think of the best way to solve a problem off the top of my head every time, obviously.

I like your methods of dealing with uorthodox patterns there like the piles, that's interesting.

Thank you. In most cases, I had to figure it out on the fly. I'm not sure it's entirely accurate to say I invented those methods, so much as discovered them, but for anyone who isn't me, I'm not sure that distinction matters.

I don't read reversed myself, but do you find you get a lot of reversed cards in your readings?

Well, I guess it's about 50/50, which is to be expected, no? And ultimately, that makes a lot of sense, because a lot of what people wrestle with on a daily basis is the difference between their perception of a situation, and the reality of that situation.

--Ember--
 
  

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