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Girlslash

 
 
Cat Chant
11:27 / 18.04.02
Inspired by plums' 'teachers slash' thread (and you're right, lack of writerly talent is really the least of your worries here!)...

who are your slashiest f/f combinations? (And this is not to descend into a "Seven of Nine & Xena" thing. Seven of Nine has never met Xena and can only be slashed with Janeway or B'Ellana. This is a reclamation of suppressed lesbian energies, not some depraved infliction of far-fetched sexual fantasies on unlikely combinations of attractive actresses. I have my stern face on.)

My nomination: the Language Officer and the Vulcan Science Officer in Enterprise. Evidence? That scene on the abandoned Klingon vessel where they were sitting v close to each other holding hands & looking at each other all dewy-eyed and parted-lipped, and offering to show each other "meditation techniques" once they got back to the ship... backed up by the fact that they didn't have a single scene together in the following episode, which is a dead giveaway.

(For boys, a dead giveaway that the character is gay is that they have a girlfriend for one episode who then dies, cf the gay doctor in Babylon 5 and Avon in Blake's 7.)
 
 
sleazenation
12:34 / 18.04.02
hmmm does it count if there have been (failed) attempts to make the subtext overt within the series - i'm thinking cmdr Ivanova and Talia Winters from B5?
 
 
_pin
12:34 / 18.04.02
<so fucking off the point>
Uh... are you entirely sure that dead girlfriends= gay boyfirend?

I'm not doubting yr slash-fu here, but... couldn't they just be killing off a female character? I'm not doubting slash, but... surely not everything is slash. Maybe people on TV programmes have other things on their mind beyond sex? Just a theory...
</so fucking off the point>
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
12:35 / 18.04.02
Or Faith and Buffy? Well, okay, so that was a failed attempt on Faith's part, largely... But those two are pretty overt - Faith and Lilah the evil lawyer even more so...
 
 
Traz
12:47 / 18.04.02
Is slash a sub-category of SF by definition, or can it include mundane contemporary settings? "Inventing the Abbotts" springs to mind: Liv Tyler and Jennifer Connelly as naughty sisters. The whole story is about repressed incestous feelings, anyway.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
12:47 / 18.04.02
Glint, thank you. I have been wanting to do this since forever.

It's a bit more complicated than that.

Where's Nick? I want a gold star.
 
 
Sax
13:02 / 18.04.02
Mel and Lisa from EastEnders. They've had so many bad choices in men between them, and it always comes down to them helping each other out, it just makes sense.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
13:04 / 18.04.02
Yes!
 
 
Jack The Bodiless
13:56 / 18.04.02
Fly, Fly, Fly... you need to Stop Watching. It is damaging you. Do you hear me?

Fly?

The only person in the UK for whom the licence fee is worthwhile...
 
 
w1rebaby
14:10 / 18.04.02
is cagney and lacey too obvious?
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
14:15 / 18.04.02
Grr. just lost my loving description of the Jenny/Susan thing.

Basically, having conducted a love/hate/occasional shag relationship with Simon throughout the first series, Jenny allows Susan to move in with her when she needs a place to stay.

Initially there are the usual tensions of two new people living together. Jenny is characterised as a tough, ambitious, dominating woman, slightly aloof from the younger teachers.

Susan agonises when she decides to move out, fearing Jenny's response. What actually happens is that Susan haltingly admits to wanting to move out and Jenny responds with tongue-tied bewilderment. There's a really sweet moment where the supposed dragon lady says confusedly 'but I thought you liked living here, It'll be lonely without you' and a shot of the two of them making eye contact.

The idea of S moving out seems to be shelved so now there's the odd scene of them being around the house together... closeness building until Jennjy gets a boyfriend and shags him, loudly and obviously, day and night. This leaving S lying awake nights, pillow jammed over her head. Tension again builds until a night when S confonts J:

The boyfriend's gone to bed, it's late at night and they sit together and talk about 'how difficult it's been having someone else in the house' and how it's put a strain on everyone... there's a moment ( i really need this on video as i've forgotten the dialogue already ) in which they're standing in a narrow corridor, leaning against the walls and looking at each other, smiling. They talk about how frustration and sexual desire are hard things to live with for ooh, ages, and there's much eye contact and smiling around the mouth...

As Jenny turns to go to bed, she smiles and makes a joke about a threesome, and Susan responsds with a laugh and an 'I don't think so...'. Another lingering look, and the camera follows them heading off to their separate rooms...
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
14:25 / 18.04.02
Eastenders is very slashable all over the place, given that one of its main cliches is to perpetuate the 'tough women stuck with drinking/conniving/crooking/stupid husbands' scenario. Plenty of space for the women to find each other after so many disappointments...

Janine and Zoe, bonding over the shared experience of being on the streets/prostitution, Zoe having to work hard ot overcome Janine's suspicion/anger, but gradually getting through to her.

Pat/Peggy also screams slash in a kind of 'east end matriarchs' way...
 
 
w1rebaby
15:36 / 18.04.02
Pat/Peggy also screams slash in a kind of 'east end matriarchs' way...

"You bitch!" "You cow!" "You... mmmmmff...."

That's not a concept I really want to explore any further, call me repressed if you will.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
15:57 / 18.04.02
OK....no time for reasons right now, but pegs in the sand:

1) Buffy and Willow (one might argue that the subtext there is pretty texty)
2) Gabrielle and Xena (see above, but somebody had to mention it)
3) Shadowcat and Rachel Summers (because I'm a great big bouncing geek).

More later.
 
 
_pin
16:17 / 18.04.02
Glint, thank you. I have been wanting to do this since forever.

It's a bit more complicated than that.

Where's Nick? I want a gold star.


Then explain it, I'm actually curious, having never really followed a thread on this. There is more to slash then sex?
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
16:26 / 18.04.02
Ach - would love to, but pushed for time. Will do what little I can to explain slash as I understand it in this context, but later, OK? In the meantime, Deva and Cholister know far more than I do...
 
 
that
16:29 / 18.04.02
Oh, hell no... thank you for the compliment Haus, but I still know not much about slash...
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
23:47 / 18.04.02
And this is not to descend into a "Seven of Nine & Xena" thing.

AWwwww. You never let me have any fun! Go on, Borg implants vs. demigoddess powers. Think of the possibilities!

Never mind, there's always my unfortunate Willow fixation to fall back on. Willow/Glory slash could be fun. Maybe Willow/Dru. Dru is the psycho chick's psycho chick.

Cordelia and... well, anyone, really. Forget nice reformed poor penniless Angelverse Cordy, it's all about Bitchy Cordy and the high-school pecking order.

Eastenders: Janine and Sonia, you dozy lot. "Come closer... you can still smell him on me": Can we say 'proxy fuck', kids?

Cartman's Mom and Kyle's Mom. Gotta happen.

Roz and Daphne from Frasier. (And don't tell me I'm the only one to have thought of this.)

Not strictly telly, but still relevent- Miss Moneypenny and any female Bond villaness. (Talking of proxy fucks- how badly does 007 want to bed his Big Bads?)


This thread has brought two things home to me: a) I no longer watch as much telly as I used to, and b) most female characters are too vacuous and interchangeble to bother slashing.
 
 
Sax
06:29 / 19.04.02
Katie and Natasha from Rescue Me - also the Proxy Shag syndrome. A role-reversal thing, with ditherer Katie becoming more dominant and bossy Natasha surrendering to her bit-of-rough charms.

Bobbi and Steve's wife (can't remember her name) from Corrie - simple, sensational plot device to get rid of two crap actresses and write out a pair of 2D characters.

The entire female cast of Hollyoaks in a big swimming pool love-in after Max puts viagra in the water cooler at college.
 
 
bio k9
06:45 / 19.04.02
How pathetic does "Mary Jane Watson-Parker, Gwen Stacey, Felicia Hardy threeway" make me sound?
 
 
Cat Chant
07:31 / 19.04.02


Glint - it's not just killing off a female character, it's putting in a female character for no apparent reason for one episode only, so that the (gay) male character has a glaringly implausible excuse (grief for a woman he only knew for five minutes) to Shun the Love Of Women, when all along he is regularly having dinner dates with the handsomest man on the ship/space station/cop shop. It really is one of those things TV producers/writers do when they think the homosociality is getting a bit homoerotic. They even did it (I believe) to Garak on Deep Space Nine after the actor publicly admitted that he was deliberately playing up the slashy aspects of Garak/Bashir (note to slash geeks: check out their first meeting, there's a pink triangle in the decor behind them).



Talia/Ivanova is a really interesting case. I would say it was exactly on the border between slash and gayfic (gayfic is where the characters are actually involved onscreen, eg if someone were to write Willow/Tara or Stuart Alan Jones/anyone in QaF except Vince). Faith & Buffy is also in that area. There's more of it for women because girl-bonding on telly is often more eroticized than boy-bonding, for some reason which I personally can't guess.

Traz, please tell me more about the incestuous desires of Jennifer Connelly in this thing I've never heard of immediately.

So far Plums' beautiful Teachers synopsis and Mordant C's Willow/Glory suggestion have made me go most quivery.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
08:02 / 19.04.02
Glint: What Deva said, basically. The same device is used in Bond movies, where the often intensely slashy relationships between bond and his nemesis are disrupted by a girl who is then bumped off (or, in the case of Christmas Jones, strangled at birth), and to an extent in Ivanova/Marcus, which was nothing, I fear, if not an attempt to demonstrate they weren't both gay, without all the messy stuff that comes from actually having a relationship.

Deva: Sadly, I don't recall there actually being any incest in "Inventing the Abbots", except the obvious incestuousness of two brothers (one of them the emperor Commodus-yay!) courting the three Abbot sisters. It is notable for also starring Joanna Going (whom I love, as she has had the same acting career as Jennifer Connelly, except without the actual proper films at the beginning and the Oscar at this end). I think Traz is thinking in terms of "hot girl-on-girl action" rather than "slash subtext".
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
08:26 / 19.04.02
1) Buffy and Willow (one might argue that the subtext there is pretty texty)
2) Gabrielle and Xena (see above, but somebody had to mention it)
3) Shadowcat and Rachel Summers (because I'm a great big bouncing geek).

Right...

Buffy and Willow is an obvious one - they've been friends for ages, and yet Willow has remained totally oblivious a) to her feelings for women and b) to Buffy's status as a woman for that entire time. I think not. Lots of mutual encouragement with boys, occasional faux pas that may hint at a deeper sadness ("You can do that thing with your mouth that boys like...NOT THAT THING!"), of *course* the "I kind of love you" in "Choices", Willow taking really seriously against Faith, and Buffy subsequently failing completely to deal with Willow's relationship with Tara - it all points to unfulfilled (or possibly intermittently fulfilled irrespective of het couplings - see especially their roomies period) f/f longing, with the assumtpion that they would always be there for each other, deflated by first Faith and then, more seriously because more stably, Tara.

2) Gabrielle and Xena - I refuse to insult anyone's intelligent by going over this one, but I think it deserves a mention.

3) Shadowcat and Rachel Summers. Reasonably obviously, the future Rachel and Kitty are lovers. So how does Rachel feel when dumped back in time and suddenly confronted by a Kitty Pryde twenty years younger? Probably pretty damned confused. Note also that Rachel takes a notably dim view of lecherous men - throughout Excalibur she is the subject of male attention, which she deflects more or less gracefully.

Kitty Pryde, meanwhile, almost certainly has some form of previous with her ex-boyfriend's younger sister Ilyana, whom she returns to the X-Mansion to nurse in her final hours, lest we forget (she has bad luck with time. What can we say?). Although she does have a history of dating boys, she moves from the older and sexually unthreatening Piotr Rasputin, to the young and utterly sexually unthreatening geek boyfriend Doug Ramsey, to an unfulfilled infatuation with Alistaire Stuart (unfulfilled perhaps at least in part because he is clearly involved in some way with his twin sister Alysande). It is telling, perhaps, that she only enters an adult het relationship - with lovely lovely Pete Wisdom - after Rachel has effectively died.
 
 
Traz
12:15 / 19.04.02
I may not have been clear in my original post: the younger two Abbott sisters, Liv Tyler and Jennifer Connelly, while both achingly beautiful and pouty-lipped, weren't lusting after each other...they were being lusted after by the elder Holt, Billy Crudup. The incestous subtext to this isn't apparent until you realize that Crudup's character is under the impression that his mother and the father of the Abbott sisters were, in fact, lovers, which would make the two families one, in some vague sense of the word. Joaquin Phoenix isn't operating under this delusion; he won't feel the urge to nail his sibling until he is crowned Emperor of Rome.

So, yes, I was thinking of both hot girl-on-girl action and subconscious symbolism...but mostly hot girl-on-girl action.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
12:18 / 19.04.02
Now, ladies and gentlemen...imagine how much *better* Inventing the Abbots could have been if the younger Holt brother had in fact *believed* himself to be the Emperor of Rome...
 
 
Traz
12:32 / 19.04.02
"Doesn't that make us brothers? Give me a kiss, brother."
 
 
The Planet of Sound
12:40 / 19.04.02
Is cross-series allowed? Then, Seven of Nine and the new Vulcan lady from Enterprise. And Ally McBeal. And the new Sam from Eastenders. And Pat. And Peggy.
 
 
Cat Chant
12:49 / 19.04.02
I repeat my stern look and request that the Planet of Sound reread the original post.

Though actually Seven & the Vulcan science officer might... no, they're too similar. Also the Vulcan science officer is busy with the Human languages officer.
 
 
sleazenation
12:53 / 19.04.02
"despite being from different races, centuries apart and whole qudrants (let alone series) distant... theirs was a love that would endure..."
 
 
sleazenation
12:54 / 19.04.02
oh yes, forgot the most important one... "and the fact they'd never met, theirs was a love that would endure..."
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
13:15 / 19.04.02
"Then they did each it. To each other. With their strap-on cocks."

Can I confirm my understanding of this thread? This is not "which female characters would you like to see rubbing their hot, tight pussies over each other for the benefit of the male gaze?" But rather "which female characters, existing in relation to each other already, in a fictitious but largely consistent universe, could credibly be loci of subtextual queer affection?"
 
 
Traz
13:39 / 19.04.02
The dividing line between credible slash and gratuitous slash strikes me as being rather thin, if it's not altogether nonexistent.
 
 
Shortfatdyke
14:15 / 19.04.02
from 'the worst witch' (tv series not the film): miss hardbroom (black clad dominatrix) and the female p.e. teacher. can't remember her name, but she's really submissive and bottom-ey when hardbroom's around. they stuck a flimsy reference to a boyfriend for the p.e. teacher in a more recent series, but it was a one off. them two have gotta have a scene - both are dying for it to happen.
 
 
gridley
16:30 / 19.04.02
Lucy and Susan from the Chronicles of Narnia. oh yeah, deep, heavy, and often. Here I quote the scene where they start to discover each other's bodies:

"Can't you get to sleep either?" said Susan.
"No," said Lucy. "I thought you were asleep. I say, Susan!"
"What?"
"I've a most extraordinary feeling - as if something were hanging over us."
"Have you? Because, as a matter of fact, so have I."


Talk about putting it out in the open!!!

Also, I think the White Witch might be some kind of lesbian mentor to the girls, but I don't have the text to back that up...
 
 
Cat Chant
08:14 / 20.04.02
they stuck a flimsy reference to a boyfriend for the p.e. teacher in a more recent series, but it was a one off.

Dead giveaway! Dead giveaway! Again, they cover their heteronormative backs with a li'l reference and then drop it so that we can enjoy the slashiness!

Traz, I'm too tired to fight with you at length over whether there's a dividing line between credible/gratuitous slash. My feeling is that slash is a two-way street - partly inflicted on the writer by the text, partly inflicted on the text by the writer, so the dividing line would be, well, more of a slash than a line... And i don't really have a problem with either, but I wanted more to know about what shows are presenting slashy female couples and how, than what fantasy couples people would most like to see together.

Keep 'em coming, you guys. In the meantime, I'm just going to add Servalan and Dayna - for the bedroom scene in 'Aftermath' and the torture scene in 'Animals', both torture & bedrooms being well-known slash codings.
 
  
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