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MIT's New Soldiers (Nanotech progress: fuck this for a game of)

  
 
captain piss
13:30 / 17.04.02
Soldiers will be able to leap 20-foot walls in a single bound and turn their body armour into offensive hi-tech weaponry, it seems -or at least that's the aim of this new US defence initiative announced last month. Full story at http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/nr/2002/isn.html.

I would have thought there was possibly more future in taking people out of the battlefield - with all this talk of intelligent robots and unmanned air-vehicles (which are seeing their 1st field deployment in Afghanistan, I think) but, as the US General guy comments, this kind of project is all about putting the man back into the loop. Hmmm....

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CAMBRIDGE, Mass. -- The United States Army has selected MIT to create lightweight molecular materials to equip foot soldiers of the future with uniforms and gear that can heal them, shield them and protect them against chemical and biological warfare.

MIT won the Army competition for the five-year, $50 million proposal for an Institute for Soldier Nanotechnologies (ISN). Industry will contribute an additional $40 million in funds and equipment.
......
These researchers will develop ideas such as a uniform that is nearly invisible, soft clothing that can become a rigid cast when a soldier breaks his or her leg, and paper-weight chainmail made of molecular materials.

"Our goal is to help greatly enhance the protection and survival of the infantry soldier using nanoscience and nanotechnology," said Thomas, the Morris Cohen Professor of Materials Science and Engineering.

"This will be achieved by creating, then scaling up to a commercial level, revolutionary materials and devices composed of particles or components [often] so tiny that hundreds could fit on the period at the end of this sentence. The idea is to incorporate these nanomaterials and nanodevices into the future soldier's uniform, and associated equipage like helmets and gloves," Thomas said.

In addition to protecting the individual soldier, "imagine the psychological impact upon a foe when encountering squads of seemingly invincible warriors protected by armor and endowed with superhuman capabilities, such as the ability to leap over 20-foot walls," said Thomas. The leaping ability, he explained at the news conference, would be enabled by "building up energy storage in shoes." Thomas went on to note that MIT researchers have recently created "world-record actuator materials" that are "better than human muscles."

What is the time frame for the revolutionary products ISN researchers foresee? Although "we hope to deliver some goodies early," within the next five years, Thomas said, some are indeed futuristic and many years from reality.

"I'm convinced that [over the next five years] we will do great engineering and great science," said Magnanti. "The question is how far we'll get toward [the more futuristic] goals."
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gozer the destructor
14:07 / 17.04.02
nanotechnology is fascinating, however i am slightly dubious about some of these claims...especially with the current military climate...soldiers jumping tall buildings? running faster than a speeding bullit? wearing their underpants on the outside?
 
 
pacha perplexa
14:32 / 17.04.02
... and capes, don't forget the capes.

All I can see is some brainwashed fucker named Thomas who's fascinated with the prospect of happily contributing to US's killer war machine. "Psychological impact"? That is SO naive.

Pardon my brazilian lack of subtlety, dear, but what does the expression "putting the man back into the loop" means? Seriously.
 
 
grant
15:39 / 17.04.02
"In the loop" comes from, I think, flow-chart diagrams.
It means the information/process will go through the subject rather than bypass the subject.
If you draw it out on a piece of paper, it makes sense.

I have no doubt, by the way, that we'll be seeing some of this stuff on battlefields in a couple years. Good COs know that remote spying and remote control is no substitute for having something with a brain, eyes and legs actually in the field.
Some of the stuff DARPA is experimenting with is far out - fiberoptic suits that have cameras on one side and displays on the other, so they project a perfect image of whatever's *behind* the wearer.
 
 
Elijah, Freelance Rabbi
16:25 / 17.04.02
it sounds great, but what happens when an enemy gets a device that makes the armor go riggid like a cast while the wearer is in the midst of a 20 foot leap?
 
 
Thjatsi
02:31 / 18.04.02
When these soldiers leap 20-foot walls, what prevents their legs from breaking when they hit the ground?

These researchers will develop ideas such as a uniform that is nearly invisible, soft clothing that can become a rigid cast when a soldier breaks his or her leg...

Oh, I see now. Consider that objection to be removed.

$50 million proposal for an Institute for Soldier Nanotechnologies (ISN). Industry will contribute an additional $40 million in funds and equipment.

Ninety million dollars over the course of several years isn't that big of a deal. We've been spending a billion on cancer research over here for a while now, and it's still one of the major causes of death. Good luck making nanotechnology that can make invincible warriors on ninety million.

My personal prediction is that no military technologies are going to come out of this in the next ten to fifteen years. However, a whole lot of basic research on the subject is going to take place, which will be a good thing.
 
 
grant
13:47 / 18.04.02
Well, some of the things in the new initiative aren't so far out - things like wearable computers containing medical monitors, say, or communications hardware and GPS units. I mean, they've already got jackets that can download and play mp3s using fiberoptics, copper thread and flexible speakers....
 
 
The Monkey
15:03 / 18.04.02
Note that 50 million is going towards establishing "the Institute," which means 1) buying real estate 2) contracting buildings that fit the use-needs of the scientists 3) possibly serving as the salary base for the staff, both scientific and maintenance/upkeep.

How efficient are some of the early developments going to be, in terms of in the heat-of-combat use...for example, the medical monitors. In a firefight, the issue isn't pulse, temperature, BP; it's gushing blood, missing limb, hit in a vital organ.

A couple of places I could see things getting interesting would be

1) Material science/polymer chemistry...this is the lightweight armor issue. Spider silk and chitin are two biotic examples that lots of MS chemists want to simulate.
2) Information technology...miniaturization of devices like cameras, radio transmitters, all increasing the effeciency of information gathering.
 
 
grant
17:12 / 18.04.02
I was thinking more along the lines of medical monitors hooked up to transmitters, so somebody safe back at HQ will know your condition wherever you are.

I think they've already got spider silk just about cornered, thanks to genetically modified goats (who produce the proteins in their milk).
 
 
Thjatsi
22:33 / 18.04.02
Well, some of the things in the new initiative aren't so far out - things like wearable computers containing medical monitors, say, or communications hardware and GPS units.

I definitely don't disagree that these things aren't far fetched at all. In fact, considering the rate at which computer science and electronics technology develops, I wouldn't be surprised if we saw soldiers using wearable computers in two years. However, this development will occur regardless of whether or not the government funds nanotechnology.
 
 
captain piss
09:50 / 19.04.02
I, too, am hard pressed to see the connection between nanotechnology and concepts like wearable computing. Although I suppose it might be the way to create materials that can more easily marry the functions of wearability with support for electronic and optical materials and substrates. Don't know much about wearablel computing so I'll step away from the crystal ball...

The skepticism of Thiazi, Gozer, Monkey etc seems understandable- at the level of what you can typically read in NewScientist or wherever, nanotech activity still seems very much confined to the lab and electrochemistry-type stuff. If you were to name a commercially manufactured product that has come out of nanotech, for instance, you'd be struggling. I think certain friction-free lubricating powders and films that are used in some types of manufacturing machinery possibly qualify.

Still, some of the stuff sounds incredible - artificial muscles that provide the wearer with superhuman strength.
I suppose it’s interesting that the suits who fund places like MIT are not being too quick to assume that developments in AI/autonomous robots and things like telepresence will replace the human foot-soldier. As Grant kind of says, there's still no readily forseeable substitute for real people in this situation.
 
 
grant
17:09 / 19.04.02
Yeah, I suppose wearable computing is really a different subject than nanotech. True. I was speaking more about the freaky stuff DARPA's already got on the burner.

I will say, though, that there's some stuff on the Q&A page that sounds like materials engineering, which is relevant to wearables.

Q17. What are some of the possible uses of nano science in the military and civilian industry?

A17. From the results of current DoD sponsored nanoscience research a number of potential applications have been developed. One is a semi-permeable membrane with molecular scale pores that open to allow passage of water but remain closed to other molecules. This would have application to water filtration and purification systems or for chemical/biological protective clothing. Molecular scale rotors on a 3d grid array so that they can pivot and block off high intensity laser light – a molecular scale Venetian blind – to protect soldier eyes from laser blinding or to act as high-speed switches in opto-electronic circuits. Nanoparticles of gold in solution, linked together by strands of DNA that are specifically encoded to respond to the DNA of biological agents, that produce dramatic optical colour changes to allow reliable field detection of biological warfare agents at very low sample sizes, or rapid, reliable screening for such diseases as flu, strep etc. Nanoporous antenna ground planes that reflect all electromagnetic energy with very low absorption, to increase the net transmission power of cell-phones and small radios. Nanoporous electrodes for batteries to increase power density and efficiency – this list grows longer every day.


It seems like in some ways they're really just talking about anything that uses mono-molecular materials - like plastics.
The new program director kind of lets on in this interview.

A: I was in it long before it was called nanotech, back in my college days at Cornell University. Now it has become such a popular area. The word "nanotech" is a better way to get funded, to attract research money and graduate students.

But yeah, the other high tech stuff is a different kettle of fish. I misspoke.

He did say this about medical monitoring, though:
Is there any technology you'll be able to implement in the next six months to a year?
In six months, based on what people are already doing, I think we'll be able to implement a few technologies. One of these is medical monitoring; they have sensors that can remotely monitor a patient's condition and send the information to a database over the Internet. There are two hospitals already doing a lot of that. Within one year, we should be able to implement that kind of technology into Army uniforms.
 
 
Thjatsi
18:09 / 19.04.02
One is a semi-permeable membrane with molecular scale pores that open to allow passage of water but remain closed to other molecules. This would have application to water filtration and purification systems or for chemical/biological protective clothing.

While I remain skeptical that anyone will be able to make such a membrane in the near future, I have to say that it would be completely awesome if someone did, and managed to make it low-cost as well. If this occured, it would wipe out a huge portion of the health problems experienced in developing countries. The potential good of such a device makes all the other examples look boring in comparison.
 
 
bio k9
01:33 / 21.04.02
Whoever invents such a thing would stand to make a lot of money.
Helping out with health problems in developing countries?

For free?

Sure. Right after we take care of Africas AIDS problem.
 
 
Thjatsi
02:22 / 21.04.02
Whoever invents such a thing would stand to make a lot of money.

Most of the scientists I know would give it away for either free or a very minimal cost. It's difficult to say what a company would do, but I really don't see many of them spending a vast amount of money on nanotechnology research anytime soon.

Sure. Right after we take care of Africas AIDS problem.

Actually, some drug companies are selling AIDS medication to countries in Africa for basically zero profit. However, even if the medicine were completely free, the continent would still be completely fucked without some sort of new breakthrough, like an HIV vaccine.
 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
17:23 / 22.04.02
Thiazi - can you point me to some backup for the drug companies selling fully licenced drugs for lo-to-no profit? It seems out of character.
 
 
MJ-12
18:18 / 22.04.02
Off the top of my head, several big pharm co.'s have begun doing this, but only after the local governments said, "Fuck your patents, we've got people dying here." I see it as by and large an attmept to recoup some positive publicity/goodwill in the face of economic inevitability, rather than anything done out of a humanitarian impulse.
 
 
Thjatsi
03:45 / 28.04.02
No problem:

US Firm Offers Cheap Aids Drugs

New AIDS Drugs Plan For Africa

As I stated before though, this will only have a very small impact on Africa's HIV problem, and what we really need is a vaccine.
 
 
Seth
08:55 / 28.04.02
Miss Dwyer, dressed for the kill...
 
 
Jack Fear
13:02 / 28.08.02
*bumpity*

An amusing sidenote: a new lawsuit alleges that the illustration used to accompany MIT's report--suposedslky drawn by the daughter of the director of the new Institute for Soldier Nanotechnology--was in fact cribbed from a comic book.

Of all places.

The MIT promo piece...


...compared to thumbnails of the relevant bits of the Image comic RADIX:


Boston Globe story hither. RADIX creator's version of the story yon.
 
  
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