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The Invisible College and the Glass Ceiling

 
  

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The Planet of Sound
15:22 / 18.04.02
I think the Invisibles is certainly Lookist; all the villains are either duffers with 'taches or glasses, or hideously deformed.
 
 
The Planet of Sound
15:25 / 18.04.02
And KM and Ragged Robin are Grant and his girlfriend; met them once, and they looked identical, right down to the piercings, hair (or lack of) and make-up. Another fiction/reality blur a la Animal Man.
 
 
The Natural Way
15:26 / 18.04.02
Hmmm..always thought the Outer Church had a certain sort of...err...anally retentive sex-appeal
 
 
yawn - thing's buddy
20:40 / 18.04.02
those veiny tits were a bit dire tho.
 
 
rizla mission
08:14 / 19.04.02
Ok, some more thoughts RE the invisibles alleged sexist/racist/homophobic-ness –

After reacquainting myself a bit with invisibles lore, I honestly think the only one you’ve got a case with is sexism (more on this later).

Sure, you can say the black characters are a little cliched (but then, isn’t pretty much every invisibles character is a variation on some recognisable stereotype? due to the speed & focus of the narrative, few of the characters have any depth) and that some unpleasant things happen to the transsexual character. But arguing from the other side, aren’t these details relatively insignificant in judging the comic’s political intention, when one considers that a) it featured a story in which a group of racist company execs are violently tortured and killed as revenge for zombifying/controlling/killing black kids and b)it featured pretty favourable portrayals of gay/trans/fetish subcultures – more than can be said for just about any other mainstream comic and c) at various points in the story Fanny humiliates and sees off a pair of yobbos in a sex shop, a homophobic cowboy etc.
Pretty clear messages there I think, even if the characterisation leaves something to be desired.

Regarding sexism accusations, I think there may be something in it .. I was never entirely comfortable with the complete change of shape, role and personality Robin underwent between volumes 1 & 2, but then, as his various ramblings make clear, Grant Morrison is very big on free love, orgone energy, carnal fun and so forth, and, as a heterosexual male, would probably argue that filling his comic with sexy girls was a harmless, positive act. Whether you agree or not probably depends on your stance regarding the old ‘porn: brilliant or exploitative?’ argument, but it’s certainly a little questionable..
 
 
Lionheart
17:53 / 19.04.02
Uhm... see, you've got one thing wrong. Which is why you're confused about why the character of Ragged Robin gets changed between volumes 1 and 2.

See, Fanny's not the only one who got it bad in Volume 1.

King Mob got shot, his lung collapsed and his face was eaten away. He almost died.

...And then the same thing happened with grant morrison. his cheek was eaten away and his lung collapsed.

So Grant decided to give himself i.e. King Mob "an easy time" and started it by getting him a girlfriend, Ragged Robin. It was a whole microcosm/macrocosm thing.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
18:11 / 19.04.02
And obviously the driving force behind all successful art is blokey wish-fulfilment.

Glad we cleared that up. Why Morrison didn't just write a comic in which he was exonerated of all possible suspicion of sexism I don't know.

Meanwhile, my own opus, "huge-breasted bisexual women love the Haus. And so do their virgin identical twin Norwegian roommates" will be in shops next month. And don't write in saying that's sexist. Because it isn't.
 
 
Mystery Gypt
19:54 / 19.04.02
i can't do much more the express the same sentiment as haus, but my overwhelming angsty feeling of disagreement compells me.

lionheart, you've made that point at least once already in this thread. using the personal desire of writers to understand their work -- especially with such completion as you claim -- is the least interesting form of criticism. even if they are chaos magicians. does the phrase "intentional fallacy" ring any bells? whether or not the modernist critics got it wrong, they had a great point when they insisted that you pay attention only to the words on the page, and not the rambling, increasingly disconnected opinion of the guy who happened to spill them there.

"hypersigil criticism" might well have its own interesting spot of theoretical discourse along with the hakim bays and the baurdrillards, but the way you are using it here, repeatedly, is identical with "sexual wish fulfillment." in fact, since a sigil is "intention" + "masterbation" i'd be pretty careful when i'd use this system to defend a work of art. if we are debating whether or not the book is sexist and you're only, fanatically repeated, argument is "the writer wanted to be strong and healthy and fuck a hot redhead" it sort of closes the case, doesn't it? unless, of course, there is more to a work than the writer's intention.

what's much more interesting is to examine what actually happens in the work and the way it happens, ripped as it is away from the will of the author, and to understand how it plays into the various social construction we find ourselves wanting to engage in.

simply going through a work to claim it is or isn't sexist is not a great endpoint to criticism. somewhere in this criticism i believe someone has said or implied that the hidden racism or sexism in the book creates a contradiction to the theme of revolution; that ultimately the book is a panacea to the social class it most appeals to and is not a genuinely "revolutionary" text -- this is something we can sink our teeth into a bit more. it cn be argued that any work produced in a sexist culture will carry a sexist ideology even by accident, therefore its not an interesting argument to simply point it out -- UNLESS one is trying to prove this initial point. the argument about sexism has to have both a cause and an effect -- "the implicit sexism DOES xxx to the book's theme" or else we will all be a bit too diffuse in our ability to grapple with it.

addressing lionheart directly again, i would say that your analysis is doing much more harm than good -- if the best defense we can devise for the structure of the invisibles is that morrison wanted to get laid, and the best intention we can imagine for hypersigils is the same, than the invisibles is a fucking waste of time.
 
 
Jack Fear
19:59 / 19.04.02
In Lionheart's defense, all of his comments about the work, its purpose, and its parallels in Mr. Morrison's life come from interviews and comments made by Mr. Morrison himself.

Mr. Morrison is. of course, a notorious liar.
 
 
Mystery Gypt
20:55 / 19.04.02
Jack, yes, understood, i have read all the same interviews. I don't see how this affects my critique of the argument, which is one based on how seriously we take an author's comments about his own work.
 
  

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