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Inertia

18:02 / 09.04.02

Firstoff, this isn't intended as a jaded 'I've seen it all' message or indeed the standard 'why's Barbelith so boring, entertain me everybody' thing. The problem (if it's a problem) clearly rests with me.

I've been finding it extremely difficult to warm up to the new incarnation of the message-board. Nothing to do with Cal's changes - in fact, I remember feeling (transiently) like this last time Barbelith was 'upgraded' - but more a general sense of... what's the right word? Not fatigue, exactly, apathy. I often can't be bothered to post replies, even when asked to do so, and this must be the first new thread I've started for aaages.

So... I'd be grateful to hear, particularly from other 'old-timers', how they overcome this subjective Barbe-inertia, how they find freshness and novelty when they're feeling like this. Is the time-honoured option of The Sabbatical - a period of self-inposed non-involvement with the place - the best option?

The Return Of Rothkoid

18:31 / 09.04.02

I don't know how much of an old-timer I'd call myself (no matter how cool I'd find long-johns to wear), though I have been poking around here for a while - certainly a couple of board restarts. But I've found that with this incarnation of the board - slowed posting rates for most aside - I'm feeling more likely to want to post long stuff than before. That is, it seems more stable, software-wise, and I'm comfortable with it now. I don't feel like my posts will be eaten by whimsical gremlins, and that's a good thing, I think. But it did take a while for me to get used to that - in the first little while after the change, I found myself in the position you describe.

I don't know how to suggest you get outta that funk, though. I've always had the ability to talk the arse out of a low-flying duck, board instability or no, and that's probably echoed in my posts. Although this time, it did take a while for things to warm up for me. It's just something that clicked one day, I guess, and it felt normal again.

Maybe it's that the whole upgrade thing has been - rightly so - a Big Deal here that it seems like more of a landmark/hassle than it really is?

18:35 / 09.04.02

I think the whiteness makes it seem like a blank page, which is intimidating.

yawn - thing's buddy

18:58 / 09.04.02

big up ganesh and grant - two seriously old timers indeed. I'm honoured to say I've even featured in one of grant's dreams, albiet with a different fiction suit on. (He probably doesn't remember) As for you Ganesh, the way you come to terms with this place is by going to see Suspect Culture productions....with me.

But you're too bloody late! I'm going through to Edinburgh tomorrow (Traverse) to see Lament, which is 1 hour 20 minutes of songs about loss. I cannae wait. Sorry you couldn't make it you cockney ****. Only joking, man. But yeah, I've missed yer presence here. I, too am none too keen on the architecture of this place just now - it's like a bloody sterilised lab or something. I can hear the buzz of finely tuned electrical measurement machines and bottle with samples in them are perched on shelves over there......

I feel disempowered by this set-up man. Dinnae like it.

But Ganesh, I've dealt with this place but not dealing with it so much - just posting on a few topics (bit sad, limit myself to comics really - occasionally film tv, magick (once every trillion years).

So, dunno really. Also, I've not been following all the shit for the past few months and I only recognise you, grant, runce and a few others.

I did mention IAo Adani in a post and then he miraculously reared his coupon a while back but not seen him since (he doesnas ken who am ur anyways)

But Ganesh, I have something very interstink to tell you regarding this place if you want to email me sometime (its on my profile)

very interesting. I'm sure you'll lap it up.

Anyway I'll sing a song for you tomorrow.

Lamentation -i love it

Less searchable M0rd4nt

08:15 / 10.04.02

I don't know about anyone else, but I'm finding the residual hostility from recent events that's floating round the board pretty stultifying. Thank goodness for the Lab.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

08:39 / 10.04.02

That's exactly what I was just saying to the boy Auckland, MC- it's almost like there's been a huge row and everyone's still a little prickly/embarrassed to stick their head above the parapet.
This too will pass.

09:10 / 10.04.02

I think the ban on new members has led to a bit of inertia. With no one new there is going to be more of a concensus.
Actually some of the best political discussions I have seen lately have been on a football messageboard. Lots of different viewpoints, some pretty nasty, but no worse than you would overhear on the bus. What is better on the messageboard you get a chance to reason with the viewpoints you don't agree with, whereas you wouldn't on the bus.

Goodness Gracious Meme

10:18 / 10.04.02

hmm. felt/feel rather similar, think it might be that its' (ulp) different and takes a bit of getting used to. I find it all a bit stark and bright, might that have something to do with it?

I've gotten interested in one or two topics and am finding I'm warming to the place.

Might be you're just bored shitless with the place? take a break, see some other boards, there are other fish in the sea, I find having a break helps...

Goodness Gracious Meme

10:20 / 10.04.02

oh and Buk, may I know which football board? have been casting around for ages to find a decent one... don't have to tell if you don't want...

11:06 / 10.04.02

I think the first thing to say is that it would be too much to expect people to maintain interest in the board in ANY form indefinitely. I know that I haven't. My interest has changed and adapted and transformed itself over time. There have been MONTHS where I have hardly even looking in and other times when I've been around all the time (like now). At the moment I'm in a real explosion of interest with the place - and have posted more than I have in months... So I would suggest leaving the board - or approaching it on a case by case basis - find a thread, become committed to it and it alone, or read a book and use the board as a place to get some responses to your thoughts on it. Treat it as a device - a useful feedback mechanism to other things going on. Or just take a break!

As to the current board - I know what people mean, it's a very different kind of board to how it was - but I still think it's a good move in the longer term... And it is only the beginning... I can tell you that the visits to the board have almost not changed at all - a third of the way into the month and 127,000 pages have been viewed - so it's not a general symptom of the place...

There is also very definitely a slightly post-horror atmosphere of anxiety around the place which it will be really great to get rid of, but that will come with time... And the ban on new members is designed to be temporary and will pass (as soon as Cal's got enough time for me to hassle him about this particular aspect of the board). So bear with us - we'll do what we can. If you need a rest - take it - if you want the impossible from Barbelith, tell us what it is you want.. And we'll see if we can do it for you...

The Natural Way

12:07 / 10.04.02

I know I'm a bit slow on the uptake, buuuuut.... Ban on new members? That shit idea actually went ahead?

Oh fuck. Couldn't we have voted or something?

12:16 / 10.04.02

Thanks for input, folks (especially yawn, who I'm surprised but chuffed to have tempted up here from the Comics forum). On reflection, I don't think my ennui is related to the new design (although having to acknowledge the towering techno-horror of html doesn't help - and I miss the 'quote text' function) so much as changes in my own situation. Having to access the place via Internet cafes tends to limit the degree to which I want to post 'spontaneously' - and seeing ZoCher only at weekends makes me want to conserve that time too. Additionally, I've just moved flat (to Willesden Green) and rotated to a new placement at work (ie. lots of meeting new people and negotiating 'new doctor' situations) - both of which are leaving me feeling more tired than usual of an evening.

Sleeping more, socialising less. Apologies for letting the Suspect Culture opportunity drift by me, yawn; I actually did fancy this but was too half-arsed to get into the organisational bit.

A holiday is what's needed, ultimately, but not necessarily a total separation from Barbelith. As some of you have suggested, I think I'll get more involved with a smaller number of threads and forums for a while.

gozer the destructor

12:17 / 10.04.02

if there's a ban then why does newest member keep changing? up there, look...

13:40 / 10.04.02

There's actually only a ban on new members signing themselves up at the moment. Various people have approached me with friends they think could contibute something, and old members have e-mailed me wanting to be reinstated, so I've signed them up. In fact Sinead is the only member I'm slightly uncomfortable with having signed up - she's here to check out my community-building skills for a potential job. Don't be too mean on her!

14:46 / 10.04.02

Um, in a way I think the new board separates the proverbial wheat from the chaff. For some reason, perhaps it's the layout or my own interaction from the new board, I feel the more thought-provoking threads are nicely separated, and I think there are some excellent threads going on in the Headshop, Switchboard and Books at the moment.

The Conversation are is really bumming me out right now, though. I realize the idea of the conversation is for goofing around but does it have to be completely removed from wit and intellect? It's like some nightmare AOL Chat Forum right now. On the other hand, I'm probably biased because I've been around so long that I "get" most of the cliquey in-jokes that in the past have floated around the conversation. So maybe what I'm saying is actually incredibly self-centered and has nothing to do with quality. In terms of Conversation, at least.

And call me The Girl In A Bubble, but I don't sense this hositlity - what did I miss? I didn't have as much time on the 'lith while I was attending my school in Prague so if someone would like to fill me in or direct me that'd be great.

gentleman loser

15:04 / 10.04.02

If there ever was a permanent ban on new members, that would be a horrible idea. I give the benefit of the doubt that this is just a temporary measure.

New blood = new ideas = a good thing.

There's a raging debate on Metafilter right now about this, if anyone's interested.

It seems like things have gotten somewhat stale around here since the board change and that lots of people aren't posting as much as they were before. Personally, I'm waiting it out. I hope this board will return to normal in another month or so. It just seems to me that there were a higher volume of interesting posts on the old board that aren't being expressed right now.

Slowly, I will learn patience!

Our Lady of The Two Towers

16:38 / 10.04.02

I felt something similar in the week following the relaunch and even started a thread based on mine and (IIRC) SFDs reservations, which no-one replied to and promptly disappeared downwards. Since then I've got into several discussions in the Head Shop and Spectacle which seem to be turning me into some right-wing scumbag and have rediscovered my joie de vivre, whatever that is.

But it's all sine waves or those hills that Long-Distance Clara used to drive up and down in Pigeon Street. Sometimes you feel interested in the place, sometimes you don't. I don't know whether it's connected but at the moment I'm not as interested in some of the newsgroups I frequent, though it's not as though I'm using the time to browse here instead.

17:19 / 10.04.02

Tom: Sinead is the only member I'm slightly uncomfortable with having signed up - she's here to check out my community-building skills for a potential job. Don't be too mean on her!

We're going to have to have Ganesh take her out in the country with a copy of Horse & Hound AND Elle Decoration, aren't we.

17:25 / 10.04.02

Only if she asks really nicely...

18:20 / 10.04.02

There have been many times over the past few weeks where I've almost posted a thread, then backed out because almost everyone I know who would join in isn't here nearly as much, if at all.

People leaving = Less people to discuss with = Less inclination to post = People leaving...

Bring on the new members.

19:01 / 10.04.02

I honestly don't think people are leaving, to be honest. And I think if people have left it's probably more to do with the fallout from the last big scumfest than it is to do with the current board. Tell you what - I'll see if I can get everyone back again... Nyuk nyuk nyuk...

20:29 / 10.04.02

That Metafilter thread is REALLY interesting. I had a conversation with Matt a while back and we swapped idea banks and it looks like we're both coming to similar conclusions about how to manage the size of a community and how to stop trolls... Either that or he knicked all my great ideas. The bastard!

11:31 / 11.04.02

I'm with Cherry re: the Conversation. It's worth remembering, however, that each time we've gone over to a new version of the board software the month immediately after has seen the place overwhelmed with threads of no particular importance or relevance, simply due to the fact that everyone feels some kind of need to contribute. It all feels a bit self-indulgent right now, though.

Like Tom says, everybody goes through periods of time where the board seems somehow less vital. 'Nesh, you yourself have felt the need to take breaks away from here before now and other times when you were just generally uninterested in the topics being thrown around. So've I, so have most members. It's just the way it goes.

I'm not certain, but maybe the loss of some of the apparently insignificant features from the UBB days is having an effect on the atmosphere; the 'From:' bit at the bottom of each person's post, for example, contributed in some small way to the feel of community.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

11:47 / 11.04.02

To be honest, the "from" bit IS something I miss- while I miss the automatic html stuff, that's something that can be overcome given our own personal effort. (As I think was demonstrated on the other board by people like Mordant etc... overcoming the limitations of that- to technophobic me, godlike- piece of software technology with animated smilies etc.)
The "From" thing I felt let people give character to their posts which could be amusing while the post was serious, serious while the post was amusing, just generally baffling etc... I think in an online community, it's helpful to have some idea of where the person's coming from- whether it be their physical location, or something that tells you about them, or something that tells you about their sense of humour... or whatever... Some form of context that (while it may equally well have been irrelevant) wasn't contained in the text.
I dunno. I liked it.

12:17 / 11.04.02

For what it's worth, it's also practically useful in some discussions to know the physical location of those involved. Specific political arguments and topics in Film & TV, for example.

13:22 / 11.04.02

I was going to post, but I can't be bothered.

But seriously, folks. I figure I've posted maybe a hundred times since the relaunch, which is probably up on what I used to do in a two-three week period of time. But I think that's because in my new job I can have it burbling away in the background all the time. I do feel as though "traffic is down" - you used to leave the place for two days and come back and 10 page threads had been and gone and people had fallen out and made up and it was so exciting.

Everyone gets barbe-exhaustion from time to time. There's a feeling that all the arguments and debates have been had before, you can't really be arsed talking about Frank Quitely's art, ho-hum another thread on David Lynch, who the heck is this band Rizla is banging on about that I've never heard of, and suddenly it all kicks off and you get plunged into it again. Usually it takes some kind of unifying thread - something I suspect Haus was attempting with the huggles thread in the conversation.

Stick with it. Or go and have a rest. You know what this place is like.

16:15 / 11.04.02

As with Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, a light but progressive programme of graded exercise combined with cognitive interventions appears to be the way to go. Starting threads, while initially a bit of a hassle ('I can't be bothered...') is serving to draw me back into things again.

16:28 / 11.04.02

SEE?

18:18 / 11.04.02

But yeah, the Conversation's making me grind my teeth to the extent that I've had to book an appointment with the ominously-named Mr Schindler, Dental Surgeon to the NHS...

pointless and uncalled for

18:31 / 11.04.02

So in the interests of your dental health, how would you like to see the conversation change.

This being intended as an attempt to identify what you want to get out of that forum on as casual a level as possible.

18:34 / 11.04.02

Less sugar, more fibre.

pointless and uncalled for

18:47 / 11.04.02

Understanable.

pointless and uncalled for

18:55 / 11.04.02

On the first page I count 8 fibre threads. Much as that may be to your chagrin, it would appear that this ratio is a reflection of the mean character of the posters here.

The rest of the threads being sugar with the exception of a couple that are probably just plain fat.

18:57 / 11.04.02

And this one's degenerating into beta-carbolenes as we speak...