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First-Person-Shooters and Karmic ramifications?

 
 
The Return Of Rothkoid
10:55 / 08.04.02
While I haven't really thought this through, I thought that some of the heads around here might be able to flesh it out for me. I've been thinking about first-person shooters - Quake III or Unreal Tournament, whatever, and wondering how they'd slot into some spiritual/magickal worlds. That is - the whole eye-for-an-eye or karmic structures generally seem to be down on violence of any sort; so where does this idealised/fantasy arm fit in? Is a generation of wargame-players in any sort of spiritual danger? (Note, though, that I'm not using "spiritual" to infer any kind of necessarily Christian structure.)

Blah. Bit muddled, but can people see where I'm going with this? To stretch needlessly, is this sort of behaviour like some kind of negative sigil-encoding? I know that when I'm playing Unreal Tournament (mmm... workplace retribution!) I tend to zone out, and not be aware of extra-game stimuli - I'm pretty much immersed. While there's a certain ott/comical aspect to the violence involved, and I don't think that it's going to make me mount that belltower with a rifle, I do feel a little curious as to whether such games could be used as tools of negativity?

Ack. Brain fog. more later.Respond, though, please.
 
 
gozer the destructor
11:27 / 08.04.02
What an interesting idea...I can see your point as regards the altered state and concentrating on the violent image...Sigil though? unsure...anybody else?
 
 
The Return Of Rothkoid
12:36 / 08.04.02
I guess the sigil thing - while still not-thought-out - more relates to things like the team logos or game logos found in the products. Is it possible that they're [paranoid] facilitating Bad Stuff [/paranoid]? Or is that too much work?

I guess that ties into the idea of company/product logo-as-sigil-guaranteeing-cash kind of thing, like an updated version of the '50s drive-in experiment that spliced "DRINK COKE" into frames of a movie, resulting in increased sales? (See here - specious link, but hey.)
 
 
The Return Of Rothkoid
12:39 / 08.04.02
Bang. Except the popcorn/coke thing is apparently a hoax. Sigh. Ignore it.
 
 
cusm
15:49 / 08.04.02
I'm an old gamer-head, so I know the zone you refer to. I understood it as a fugue state, where you enter a slight level of trance to allow hyper reflexive action to take place with the more effecient parts of your brain without your consciousness interfering. Its very Zen, and a beautiful place of coldly efficient killing machineness. I used to get that a lot with the old 1942 arcade game, and similar old skool shooters. When I'm there, I can pretty much continue to win until I loose concentration.

I always considered that sort of thing more trance and Zen oriented than applicable to sigel work, though I can see some applications. Once tranced in a good fugue, it is a sort of gnosis, as your concentration is wholely focused.

Now, say you're running about in a frenzy of bullets, tranced into the killing zone, and suddenly the screen flashes to a sigel, stopping the game and directing all the focus to the sigel. Then, the screen goes black, shoots random noise to banish, and goes back to the bloodbath or whatever you were playing before.

Compu-magick, anyone?
 
 
Rev. Wright
17:29 / 08.04.02
Light and movement and sound, the very substance of hypnotism and trances.
I have recently been investigating the hypnotic effect of monitors, televisions and cinema and their subliminal frequencies. So far all I can personaly say is the less the better. My reasoning is this, face to face communication is an hypnotic state that people go into with one another. Performance is a more grand version of this, and media has developed along with our desire for this state of mind. Technological stimulation. I'm not sure that I want to transfer my human contact with moving image & audio media too heavily. I too, am an old gamer, but I get out more nowadays.
 
 
ciarconn
13:52 / 11.04.02
I use some videogames as training for maintaining the "empty mind" state. And some fighting games (Tekken 3 and 4) for focusing my mind into real combat. And the gnostic state is there.
 
 
solid~liquid onwards
17:40 / 11.04.02
video games must be kinda spiritual, as ima god at FPS's, TFC in particular...in fact im gonna run around as a medic, beating unsuspecting snipers to death with my medipak.
 
 
mixmage
17:33 / 28.09.02
just linked to it, so I'll add my off-topic tuppence...

If the game includes a level editor, why not insert your sigil/s into the environment? Import a graphic to represent your intended result, then use it as a poster, a bit of graffiti, a team logo. The action of the game should quickly distract you from the fact that you are working magick. Especially in multiplayer.
 
 
fluid_state
18:20 / 28.09.02
i think mixmage and cusm are onto something. I'm very well acquainted with the fugue; in it's current form, the zen-state of virtual murder achieves nothing (well, in the context of potential will-working). using it for your own magick/percieved goals is dead on. examples:

texturing existing levels with one's own sigils: change some of the textures on CTF levels (ie the flags and base logos) to your own sigil, or a pair: it becomes a metaphorical journey from the sigil you're based in (your team) to achieve another goal-sigil. and you work within the constraints of a non-verbally communicative team, so perhaps karmic response/repercussion is immediate.

building a level based on a sigil design... in effect, running around a macrocosm of your own desire. Single-player objectives and a storyline make it a hypersigil of sorts. Deathmatch play inside one's sigil would be an ideal charge-method for many of us.

oh, this is threadrot, isn't it? I know nothing of the karmic balance involved in these games; I have noticed that they're a great way for people to spend time with one another without saying a word, though.
 
 
Elijah, Freelance Rabbi
18:49 / 28.09.02
i personally think i would want to be reincarnated as one of the balaclava wearing bad guys myself...
 
 
Nietzsch E. Coyote
21:36 / 28.09.02
I think it is instant karma. You bad, act with muddled intentions, you die. In the game that is. Maybe not in this {game, life} but in the next {game, life}. Virtual Karma in a Virtual World. Why assume that it is any more complicated?

On the other hand casting sigils in the game... That would affect karma, if such exists, for two reasons.
1) It extends out of the game.
2) It is based on INTENT.
 
 
XXII:X:II = XXX
15:24 / 02.10.02
Here's my take: Doom, Quake, etc., are, on their own merits, conductors of negative energy, though more often than not the totems that the energy is being displaced onto appear to be avatars of dark forces. This, of course, like in life, is an illusion: on their own merits they are merely aggressive pieces of code, servitors, really, that have been created by the programmers to impede your progress and farm your own aggressive tendencies. Since there is an adrenaline high that accompanies such a release of negative energies, accompanied by the synaesthetic sense of vertigo and motion you experience, despite that you're sitting at the desk or on your couch, all contribute to the charging of a sigil that you may not be aware of, and that the programmers themselves are unaware of, but is present nevertheless. Fortunately, many of these games also have hack, patch and WAD editors available online that allow you to alter the appearance of your "enemies," the scenery, and even the layout of the mazes you run around in. I've seen patches that turn Doom into anti-DEA propaganda machines with Cypress Hill soundtracks, and others that turn the aliens in Marathon into Power Rangers and Barney. Mac-users can d/l a program called ResEdit which allows you to reach inside the programming and alter images to one's preferences. Imagine what an imaginative, magickally-minded hacker could do with the concept of fighting avatars of the maya in an environment that will fire a electronic sigil into the universe. Any ideas?
 
 
Molly Shortcake
20:06 / 07.10.02
... so nobody here played Silent Hill 1?
 
 
mixmage
19:52 / 19.10.02
I have... MUCH better than the sequel. It'll hurt you, and you won't know why.
 
 
mixmage
09:47 / 03.04.03
Yup... it's a goer. At least in Counter Strike.

Sigil-bombing servers is as easy as making JPEG/BMP of ya design.

With a converter [like Wally], you can use the wizard to turn it into a player decal [pdecal.wad], which you can then spray in online multiplayer games.

oh yes... all those minds to infect. you don't even have to play, just hop in, spray, hop out and...

done done and it's on to the next one... c'mon you Foo Fighters!

hmmm... as for karmic ramifications?
Virtual Ritual Slayings?
Team Killers?
Hostage Murder?
Knifing [aka Noobizing]?

will keep ya posted...
 
 
The Return Of Rothkoid
10:59 / 03.04.03
Screenshots?
 
 
Quantum
11:56 / 03.04.03
"..the old 1942 arcade game, and similar old skool shooters. When I'm there, I can pretty much continue to win until I loose concentration."
Gah! Me too, like Tetris the simple games are best for fugue states.

The magickal consequences of fictional ultraviolence are internal, though, surely- the actions in the game are restricted to the game, they are phantom actions anyway, and you withold your conscious intent to affect the world- you only affect the computer world. The only lasting effects will be in your psyche, in how violent you are in life. As long as you keep fantasy and reality segregated (don't go up the belltower), what real effect does it have?
 
 
mixmage
12:15 / 03.04.03
Whose sprite are you?

Which mouse twitches your hand to twitch your mouse to give that sucker another ignoble ending? Which bad game started the shit night that led to the tired and cranky day he...

Shouted at his spouse?
Crashed the car?
bought a real gun?

Even if I can segregate virtual from real... can the victims i leave in my wake be as detached? And what if I decide to validate the reality the game takes place in? Go Neo or Agent in this real life high speed matrix?

Hence my list of virtual attrocities.

Will "positive" sigils work best if i play a goodie, rescue everybody and try not to kill any opposition? Conversely, can I build enough charge with Online "Evil" to launch a bane... before the server kicks me for war-crimes?

err... btw... I actually invoke the deities of technology, information and communication every time i start my machine. Seriously, it crashes less.
 
 
grant
18:18 / 03.04.03
Any of y'all read the Bhagavad Gita?
 
 
mixmage
12:01 / 04.04.03
bits... not the whole book.

Are you talking about the "they're already dead, Arjuna. Release their souls to me" part?

First time I played online I got slaughtered, but rose up again for each new round. It made me laugh - VirtuaVallhalla.

Who plays the pig?
 
 
grant
13:27 / 04.04.03
More like the idea that when you act without intention, your acts are karma-free.

Sounds a lot like the descriptions of the "game zone" or whatever up thread -- acting in unity with the game.

I wonder how the ideas of "the game" (as lila, maybe) and "the world-system" (or dharma) interact in Hinduism. Seems like they would.
 
 
Quantum
13:41 / 04.04.03
The game as Maya surely?
Totally my point, play-intent is not the same as real intent, like playfighting is not the same as real fighting- looks similar, doesn't have the consequences.
 
 
mixmage
15:40 / 06.04.03
... It's just a game... right?
 
 
The Falcon
04:51 / 07.04.03
I think the idea, which I've considered for a while, becomes more interesting applied to writing.

Fiction, obviously.
 
 
grant
14:20 / 26.08.03
Crosslink: Video Game Characters with a Soul?

It's in the Lab, and seemed pertinent.
 
 
Shanghai Quasar
11:02 / 27.08.03
Violent sprites locked away in digital psych wards, claiming they were possessed by otherworldly entities who controlled their actions the whole time.
 
 
mixmage
02:36 / 13.12.03
yup... in a little town called Silent Hill
 
 
--
02:20 / 14.12.03
Now I feel bad for killing 8,000 + people in GTA: Vice City.
 
 
Person
03:51 / 14.12.03
grant Bingo on the "actions without attachment" being the key to not gaining karma. For some reason once the concept of karma hit the west it became a good/evil thing; probably the best way to piegeonhole it into judeo-christian morality.

I guess the video game analogue would be: once the game is over, do you carry the thoughts and feelings from there to the rest of your life? Do you carry it into the next week? The next life? That attachment would be karma. It's just generally easier to not carry stuff with you when you don't run around shooting people.

Get fragged and respawn, it's all samsara...
 
 
Molly Shortcake
04:37 / 04.01.04
About Silent Hill 1, the entire game is full of sigils it charges by utterly disturbing you. I'd say the entire game is one big sigil. I can't be the only person here to have noticed.

Any thoughts?
 
 
mixmage
16:39 / 25.02.04
Related thread
 
  
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