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Hieronymus
12:12 / 05.04.02
I have a friend who I'm dying to bring into the fold but the gates still seem to be closed and barred to new folks. Any ETA on new member admittance? Does it involve humiliating initiation rituals?
 
 
pointless and uncalled for
12:18 / 05.04.02
Please say it does.

Just once in my life I would like to be a humiliator.

Have I mentioned that I don't have any friends?
 
 
Our Lady of The Two Towers
12:43 / 05.04.02
It used to involve Chunky Peanut Butter and a copy of Horse and Hound, or at least that's what Ganesh told me when he got me out on the Yorkshire Moors...
 
 
Tom Coates
12:45 / 05.04.02
That's a very good question. It's a question of me being really being really busy at the moment and when I can persuade Cal to do it. I'm supposed to spec it out for him... But I'm not sure I'm going to have time...
 
 
pointless and uncalled for
12:53 / 05.04.02
Horse and Hound?

That man has no class at all.
 
 
Sleeperservice
00:23 / 07.04.02
mmmmm, peanut butter...

/me rushes off to the kitchen
 
 
Ganesh
00:54 / 07.04.02
Tt. I think you'll find it was Elle Decoration.
 
 
grant
13:48 / 09.04.02
Is it possible to manually add this fellow: mixmage@hotmail.com?
He's written a great zine article and contributed to the Magick via email. I've heard he's also a member in good standing of the Magickal Order of Barbelith (M.O.B.).
Seems quite a worthwhile chappie, eh wot?
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
15:01 / 09.04.02
Is he local?
 
 
pointless and uncalled for
12:18 / 10.04.02
Elle Decoration is class? Since when.

What you need is a neo-eclectic magazine like Photo (the French version, not the American) or the latest edition of an Australian cigar afficionado magazine.
 
 
Tom Coates
13:30 / 10.04.02
I'm happy to add him if everyone else is comfortable with that...
 
 
pointless and uncalled for
13:47 / 10.04.02
I'll trust grant's judgement.
 
 
grant
16:17 / 11.04.02
I've been looking for a Magick thread (where I posted his article on runes) in which a couple other people said the mixmage was OK.
 
 
grant
20:58 / 11.04.02
Here it is.
 
 
Tom Coates
09:24 / 12.04.02
You can let him know that I've made a new user name for him using that e-mail address. If he gets the site to send him the password that's probably ideal...
 
 
moriarty
16:20 / 12.04.02
I take it back. After reading the F2B thread, a no-new members policy sounds like a great thing.
 
 
Spaids
17:27 / 19.04.02
My friend Dee(gabriel_freemount@yahoo.co.uk)Would very much like to join Barbelith, but due to existing(and understandable)restrictions is unable to. Is there any way you could grant this good fellow access? Please? Pretty please with sugar on top? and cherries? and chocolate?
 
 
Spaids
12:30 / 20.04.02
BTW Espadieros (@yahoo.com) is in fact me. But I can't actually post using that ID so you can delete him from the records if you like.
 
 
netbanshee
20:26 / 20.04.02
Will be contacting a friend of a friend who's quite a good magic and discord nut...he might be interested in getting in once I resume online speak with him...may ask for a new memberism...
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
21:44 / 20.04.02
Yeah, is the "month" idea still happening? Or are we by invite only? (Not necessarily that that would be a bad thing, but it'd be nice to know.)
 
 
SMS
01:17 / 21.04.02
For what it's worth, I still hope we let new members come in after some reasonable amount of time passes (less than six months).
 
 
Tom Coates
09:24 / 21.04.02
At the moment if you want to get a new member to join then you just have to private message me with the login name they'd like and their e-mail address. People are being allowed in ONLY on personal recommendations at the moment, and if they cause absolutely fuckloads of trouble then I'll be VERY unhappy with the person who recommended them. Does that sound fair?
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
09:25 / 21.04.02
Very fair indeed.
 
 
Tom Coates
09:25 / 21.04.02
Oh and the reason why you have to private message me to get someone to join rather than e-mail me is that no one can fake the private message - they'd have to have access to the board already...
 
 
solid~liquid onwards
18:28 / 26.04.02
it all sounds a bit elitist to me, but i'll have a read of that thread
 
 
Tom Coates
23:47 / 26.04.02
It's elitist in the sense that it's not open to absolutely everyone in the world. It's not elitist in that we don't have criteria about who should join except that they shouldn't completely butt-fuck the board. That's all.

Basically you know as well as I do that if I opened up membership to anyone that we couldn't stop The Knowledte returning to the board. More pertinently, a lot of the things I want to do with the new barbelith require people to actually be who they SAY they are. One of these is quite likely to be voting related. Signing up twenty suits so that you can always vote things your way is *NOT* going to do anyone any good.

This means there have to be barriers to entry that make it only worth while actually making decent real people new members. At the moment the best option that anyone has been able to come up with is personal recommendation with the person who recommends being responsible for looking after the new member (and being responsible if the person concerned fucks up).

If you have a better model, then I'd be delighted to hear about it - but there have been several debates about this matter before and I'm sure very little will have changed since then...
 
 
Mystery Gypt
00:28 / 27.04.02
just want to say, i support it tom. thought levels here recently have been awesome, and if someone is interested enough to want to join i'm sure they can find a way. i'm sure will turn out to have tons of "dormant troll" lying in wait with many of the existing suits that we haven't heard from yet...
 
 
SMS
02:39 / 27.04.02
It's elitist in the sense that it's not open to absolutely everyone in the world. It's not elitist in that we don't have criteria about who should join except that they shouldn't completely butt-fuck the board. That's all.

Well, we do have criteria, actually. Basically, you cannot join unless you know someone already here. This rules out nearly everyone.
 
 
SMS
02:44 / 27.04.02
Sorry, Tom. That's exactly what you said. I sort of misread it.

The more I think about this policy, the more it disturbs me.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
10:45 / 27.04.02
I suggest that anyone with doubts about the current membership restrictions checks out some of the old policy threads related to the subject before crying "elitism". FWIW, Tom has my full support on this.

However, since this issue doesn't seem like it's going to dry up and blow away any time soon, I'd like to offer a few tentative ideas as to how we might get around the problem.


"Hold on, Spiffy!"

The current registration page could be replaced with a brief explanation as to why registration is a bit tricky at the mo., and contact details for...

The Barbelith Welcoming Committee

A group (say ten or so) of volunteers. These volunteers would be trusted suits from a variety of backgrounds, and their job would be to look at applications for membership.


The Application Proceedure

Here's a couple of possibilities:

1) Questionniare/Essay

A questionnaire that the prospect has to fill in, or better yet a short piece about themselves (say half a page). This would be less about boring stuff like age, gender, blah blah blah, and more about the prospect's interests and ideas. It sould be made clear that this isn't about literary merit

2) The "Baby-lith" board.

A forum overseen by the Welcoming Committee. Prospects are required to post here for a few weeks, and can then apply for membership of the 'Lith proper.
 
 
Tom Coates
10:58 / 27.04.02
I understand completely. Find me an alternative!

At the moment the choices we have are 1) don't let anyone in at all, 2) control the entry in some way. Neither is ideal, but both seem to me to me to be fundamental. If there was a way to legitimately identify individual people then we could decide to just exclude the Knowledge and open the doors wide to everyone else. But I don't know one way of doing that. Not a single one.

There are other possibilities, but they aren't exactly easy to implement. I mean - for example we could open up one suit to a random punter for every new sponsored member on the board. But the question of how we keep that functioning, and don't make it open to abuse, is far from easy...

And finally, while I completely relate to the desire to make this place as open as possible - there really is the legitimate concern that conversation and debate would suffer. The temptation to make another barbelith - a barbelith OVERGROUND if you will - is increasingly appealling. Something with little in the way of moderation and with few if any boundaries to entry. And then current users could decide which one they'd rather occupy.

I've been seriously thinking about podding the board, actually. Treating it as something that operates concurrently and invisibly - ten or twenty different boards, all almost exactly the same in structure, all with roughly the same mechanisms - each growing organically in their own way. Or perhaps running two filtered views of the board concurrently - one in which anyone could join and post (but whie everyone who wasn't a core member could read AND post, core members could only read), and one filtered one (with only the initial mentored and self-governming group) where only the core members could post, but where you couldnt' see the whole conversation as posted from outside...

It would be a complex balance... Might work...

Come on - surprise me. Think up great paradigms for community and Cal and I will implement them...
 
 
Trijhaos
11:40 / 27.04.02
Ok, so let's talk about a hypothetical situation here. Joe Schmoe has just read something by Grant Morrison and wants to know more. He hits google types Grant Morrison in and eventually hits Barbelith. Well, he sees all these interesting conversations going on and decides to register. What! What's this? He can't register unless he knows someone here! Damn those people sure are some elistist bastards. Whatever can poor Joe Schmoe do?

What I was thinking was we could take two of Mordant's suggestions, the application process and the Welcoming Committee. What we could do is have a contact list for current suits willing to sponsor new suits. The new suit would have to contact one of these suits, say "Hey, I wanna join, can you sponsor me?" and if the suit agrees (They better, they agreed to sponsor new suits) the applicant would fill out a small application/essay and send it in. After the sponsoring suit goes over the application s/he would say ok, I want to sponsor so and so, here's the ficsuit name they want to use. That gets taken care of, the person applying is given their suit name and password and we have some new blood.
 
 
videodrome
13:53 / 27.04.02
I like the welcoming committee and sponsoring ideas, paritally because they'd hopefully create some sense of responsibility among new members.

The other thing that occurred to me last night was the notion of a proxy posting system for non-members; something that kinda apes the anonymous ftp system. Non-members could post in a way similar to that of members, but each non-member post would show up as a moderation action requiring acceptance by 2 forum moderators. This would spread the effort out among the moderators on different forums, rather than placing a larger amount of sponsorship duties on any one person's head. The applicant could then be accepted or not after a series of successful posts - this could be done automatically or the system could rely on the awareness of moderators to invite the person to join.

I'd like to think that this would reduce the appearance of elitism (with which I don't really have a problem) and make it clear that there's a troll screening process happening.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
18:55 / 27.04.02
Avoiding the t-word might be helpful when explaining this to outsiders. Labels are only helpful in context, where they can be used as shorthand. A sketchy outline of what constitutes butt-fucking the board would be more helpful, no?
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
19:00 / 27.04.02
Non-members could post in a way similar to that of members, but each non-member post would show up as a moderation action requiring acceptance by 2 forum moderators.... The applicant could then be accepted or not after a series of successful posts - this could be done automatically or the system could rely on the awareness of moderators to invite the person to join.

Can I get a "fuck YEAH!" over here? I can see a few probs, but this system might just work.
 
  

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