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Riots

07:44 / 03.04.02

Have you ever been in one? What happened? How and why did it begin? How did it end? How did it feel? Did it accomplish anything?

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

08:30 / 04.04.02

Far too many (and I'm not the brickthrowing/smashing stuff type- I just keep getting caught up in them. Usually Reclaim the Streets, funnily enough...)
Frightening, exhilarating in equal measures. Most times it's been the cops that have started (especially the RTS Trafalgar Square one about four years back, when, on saying to one of the coppers "how come you're all standing here now when ten minutes ago you were all back there?" we received the answer "yeah, and I'll see you over there in half an hour", pointing to the other side of the square. Sure enough, after half an hour, they piled in. Of course people fought back- I don't believe in violence as an end in itself, but you have a morla right to stand up for yourself- and it all got very nasty- a girl we were helping down off a fence got a truncheon in the face... all manner of shit.
Then Mayday three years ago- that was a real clusterfuck. Yes, there was a fair bit of trashing stuff going on (mostly "legitimate" or at least deliberate targets- the LIFFE building, etc) but there was also a fair bit of random violence- restaurants etc getting their windows put through, which as far as I could tell was just fucking stupid. AND I got a brick in the back of the head from some twat who thought he'd be hard and chuck stuff at the coppers, but didn't think he'd be hard enough to go in front of those of us who were just trying to hold the line. A more embarrassing night in hospital I have yet to experience- "were you in the City today?" "umm... yes." "Did the police do this to you?" "umm... no... it was... umm... friendly fire".
I dunno... sometimes it feels like you're actually achieving something, or at least SAYING something... other times (and increasingly so, sadly) it's just a bunch of twats breaking stuff and putting EVERYONE's cause back ten years.
And just to add- does anyone remember when RTS actions were cool, non-violent direct action? You'd block off the traffic, make your point, have a really cool day out and nobody would get hurt. Seems like a fucking million years ago now.

Strange Machine Vs The Virus with Shoes

15:44 / 05.04.02

Moominstoat, I've heard a little bit about the psychology of "the mob". That when in a crowd, people become involved in the general feeling of the crowd, despite their inhibitions and may act violently if that is the mood of the crowd (I think the research came from football crowds). Did this happen to you?

11:53 / 06.04.02

Well, Mayday 2000 was a riot. (I'd better make it clear that I'm not a rioting type myself but like Moomin says, one gets caught up in these things from time to time.) Anyway, it started around lunchtime with a nice peaceful convergence which lasted a couple of hours. We marched to Travalger Sq and on the way the shitstorm kicked off, McDonalds was trashed and shops looted. The robocops appeared from nowhere and got bricked and bottled but managed to block us in. I'd lost my mate in a charge and, oddly, things went majorly boring for a while. One bottle smashing off a riot helmet is very much like the next and it was a case of not so much being in a riot as being stuck in an enclosed area, no way out, no water, no protection from the sun/heat etc and nothing whatsoever to do other than vainly try to find my mate. The police closed in slowly but surely and then it started to get nasty. I'll never forget seeing a woman get gassed and bashed (for refusing to move from where she was sitting) and, well, so were men being clubbed obviously but for some reason I find this less upsetting to witness. We were herded into less and less space until it was standing room only, rush-hour train levels of personal space. Obviously there was nowhere to pee so people were pissing themselves where they stood. I was getting claustrophobic as fuck, borderline panic at times. It was getting dark by the time they let me go, but then at least I did get out in one piece.

Last year Kooky and I managed not to get cordoned in like that and saw a few shops being smashed.

God only knows what riots achieve.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

20:18 / 06.04.02

As far as I've been able to tell, mob mentality is a given. You do lose inhibitions etc. (although not principles- I've done things I probably would've been too much of a wuss to do otherwise, but never anything I would've thought was wrong otherwise- fighting back, etc, but still not actively seeking trouble), and it's frightening afterwards to realise (even if, like me, you don't tend to go smashing stuff) that it IS such a powerful thing, and for a while, you are just one part in a huge animal. (I would use the term "hive mind", but it's a bit too Star Trek, so I didn't.) It's weird- you still have your individuality, your wish to maintain your personal safety and that of your friends, etc., but you do spend the day thinking in terms of "we" instead of "I". Which obviously has its upside, and its deeply unpleasant downside.
Any more input on this would be much appreciated. And yes, Bill, there's a lot of tedium involved. And the jury's still out on the "achievement" count.

11:54 / 08.04.02

Do you people think there is any relevant difference between what is described as a "food riot" if it happens in Indonesia or Argentina and a "antiglobalist riot" if it happens in the US or Europe?

If so, what is the difference?

18:40 / 09.04.02

Anger for self vs. anger on behalf of others, maybe?

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

20:12 / 09.04.02

Desperation vs ideology?

22:24 / 09.04.02

Because hungry people don't have ideologies?
Because people with ideas don't get desperate?

Is there a fairly dodgy idea about people in the South lurking in there, somewhere?

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

22:40 / 09.04.02

No, just more that a riot intending to "make a point" is possibly different to people rioting because they have no other choice. Will think further- more later.

00:32 / 10.04.02

I think that implies pretty questionable ideas about both 'first world' and 'third world' rioters. A riot is always a political statement, you can't assume people without Western living standards are incapable of making political choices about tactics. A riot always 'makes a point'.

More generally, I think the distinction between what counts as a riot and what doesn't is generally constructed by mass media and government. Nonviolent direct action in the North is routinely represented, in Australian media at least, as riotous. Just recently we've been hearing about the riots at Woomera Detention Centre. So on the question of the difference between food riots and antiglobalisation riots, I think both are mass media constructs masking political decisions around the importance of diversity of tactics and direct action, turning ongoing campaigns into flashy news items.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

03:28 / 10.04.02

Yes, maybe that was a pretty glib answer. What I meant was more to do with motive than definition- in a food riot, or the storming of (oh, I don't know) the government buildings in Belgrade, there would (I would imagine) be a definite, immediately achievable physical goal. As there would storming a missile base or what-have you here or indeed anywhere. But as far as the "mass media construct" point goes, I'm in agreement with you- the "flashy news item" will largely be the uninvolved public's main point of contact with the ongoing campaign.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

03:34 / 10.04.02

Although, rereading my last post, it occurs to me that even in a Reclaim the Streets type situation the creation of a temporary autonomous zone is a pretty concrete and immediately achievable goal. So that's probably not it.