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Conspiracy?

 
 
The Knowledge +1
19:54 / 13.09.01
I just heard some US guy on BBC saying that the terrorists must have been from a very proficieny group because they were able to fly and land the planes.

Question: Did the planes have enough petrol to fly to another country?

If there are planes unaccounted for, have they been flown to another country and are the USA keeping this news from us?
 
 
mondo a-go-go
20:08 / 13.09.01
if they are planned internal flights, then no, they don't have enough fuel to fly to another country.

as stated in another thread, cost-cutting measures mean that most planes carry little extra fuel on top of what is needed for each flight. i think this is also a safety measure because of fires, although obviously it isn't very safe if the plane has to circle for ages before it can land.

there are loads of conflicting views from pundits re: the ease or non-ease of flying planes. as someone pointed out, flying planes isn't that hard, landing planes is the tricky bit. these people had no plans to land them, so it wasn't an issue.

this has been covered in several other threads, some of which you've posted on, so i'd like to think you'd paid attention to their content. do me a favour and try not to see conspiracies behind every little factor, eh?
 
 
MJ-12
20:16 / 13.09.01
from rec.aviation.piloting
[URL=http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&threadm=3B9EDE6D.7208C9E4%40biomed.med.yale.edu&prev=/groups%3Fnum%3D25%26hl%3Den%26group%3Drec.aviation.piloting%26start%3D100%26group%3 ]How to fly such a plane...[/URL]

[ 14-09-2001: Message edited by: kooky has go-go power ]
 
 
Ronald Thomas Clontle
09:39 / 14.09.01
here's the most crackpot theory I can come up with: Al Gore is secretly leading a revolutionary movement to overthrow GW Bush and reclaim the Presidency...he's made it seem like bin Ladin is in charge as a way of diversion...
 
 
Mr Tricks
09:39 / 14.09.01
I'd rather believ it's the hip hop crew..Coupe




[ 14-09-2001: Message edited by: PATricky ]
 
 
RadJose
09:39 / 14.09.01
so after threatin' my roommate w/ no more rum for his cola after almost sayin' i identified w/ the terrorists i started rantin' freely all across my apt and came to this the most fuck conspiracy theory for this that i can think of...

they were planted by the US government, so that after this "attack", the american people will come together to request a more "safe" police state, they want us the thank them for givin' us a police state ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

okay sorry i know it's a bit out there and i was drunk when i came up w/ it

[ 14-09-2001: Message edited by: radjose ]
 
 
fluid_state
09:39 / 14.09.01
well, i feel like a real shit, but I've gotta know....

do you think the US administration would have stopped the attack if they knew about it beforehand? I mean, the country was openly mocking their "elected" leader, mocking the entire process that got him there. the world-politic was that Bush, and hence America, was backwards and ineffectual. The day of the election results, the money just FLEW out of the U.S. and the media pundits cried recession and prepared us for it's inevitability. The U.N. began to scrutinze America at a new, unprecedented level, and found it wanting on several levels (not the least of which being points of propaganda-generated pride, like drug and human rights issues). and now, after the heinous acts committed, recent history has once again been erased in the face of the latest spectacle.

my pre-emptive apologies to anyone offended by this. I do not mean to devalue the senseless loss of life, nor the fear that's become so prevalent in our consciousness. it's just a little too perfect for a government plagued by public apathy and derision, that had been clamoring for a war to boost their only actual measure of power: their economy. Hell, some of us even joked about it before, that the only way for Bush to look good was to fight a war and revive the economy. Except no-one even thought about this happening.
 
 
rizla mission
09:39 / 14.09.01
It's a good point.

I give it a fortnight before a guy with a crew-cut & walrus moustache writes a book presenting this argument.

And if he doesn't, it must be true.
 
 
Ganesh
09:39 / 14.09.01
quote:Originally posted by Rizla Year Zero:
I give it a fortnight before a guy with a crew-cut & walrus moustache writes a book presenting this argument.


Are you implicating the Gay Bear Movement, Rizla?

 
 
The Return Of Rothkoid
09:39 / 14.09.01
quote:Originally posted by PATricky:
I'd rather believ it's the hip hop crew..Coupe




[ 14-09-2001: Message edited by: PATricky ]
That artwork - I can't see it here, but I assume it's the bombing one - has been yanked.
 
 
Jaeger
09:39 / 14.09.01
we have seen very little of Dick Cheney, Tonto to Lone Ranger Dubya.
this is because he is watching "Wag The Dog" over and over again and learning how to run a war which will enhance the popularity back home of a President whose legitimacy has heretofore been in dispute.
I seem to recall Clinton tried (and failed dismally) to bomb Bin Laden when his scandalous shit was hitting the fans back home and Slick Willi's ratings then went through the roof with the U.S. volk.
 
 
RiffRaff
10:13 / 14.09.01
And that's prbably just what'll happen this time. The american people will vote for anything that looks good on TV.
 
 
MJ-12
10:19 / 14.09.01
quote:Originally posted by solid_state:
do you think the US administration would have stopped the attack if they knew about it beforehand?


Don't you think they'd have gotten Bush a better script?
 
 
000
10:21 / 14.09.01
I am not here to make a mockery nor do I seek to be mocked.

My condolence to all those who grieve.

What has happened has change the lives of all these people but Not just for them also for us. We have entered the era of safety measures, for we can not condone such actions of course. What does that mean concretely? What would we have to do, to ensure the people absolute safety? We would have to be totally controlled. We will not be able to ever to just fly like we are used to, we will not be able travel freely anymore. We are going to be pulled out of our anonymous lives into the society were we all have to be able to be identified by the law represented by those who control us, at any time no matter were we go no matter what country. Have you guys thought about this? Do any of you realized what has happened? We have entered the years of trail and tribulation.
I really don’t care if you guys believe me or not, as long as you read it. This is real. http://educate-yourself.org/catindex.html
On the page down, you have;
Pole Shift & Earth Changes
“After the 12th Planet moves beyond its obstructing position vis a vis the sun, its gravitational grip will lessen and allow the Earth to again respond to the influences of the sun and other planetary bodies in our solar system. This lessening gravitational influence will permit the Earth to begin rotating again; slowly at first; but gradually returning to its normal speed as the 12th Planet pulls away from us. Due to the enormously long, debris-filled tail of the red giant, the close passage of the 12th planet will cause a tearing away of a portion of the earth's atmosphere as well as raining down of a great deal of chunky debris and red dust into our atmosphere. Oxygen in the atmosphere will burn with this inbound debris and ignite superheated atmospheric firestorms that will consume much oxygen. Continuous volcanic eruptions will throw up massive amounts of smoke & ash. The large amounts of sulfur and lead in this ash will poison most sources of surface drinking water such as lakes and rivers, and possibly contaminate some underground water sources as well. The Zetas report that it will take a few years for the atmospheric pressure to rebuild to former levels. During this period, clouds and wind currents (the jet stream), which normally blow aloft, will occur at the surface. This atmospheric change will translate into an almost constant rain and drizzle and very high surface winds. Therefore, it will not be possible to grow food unprotected or live above the surface for a few years. Underground protected environments will be a necessity for survival
“That is why they have been building these underground cities. These cities are not meant for the people but for a very select group of people. Stroll down to:The Government & Aliens and read more about these cities.
Then here you have the reason for the Freedom Boats;
“The most dramatic earth movements/cataclysms will occur in late Spring or early Summer of 2003. The North and South Poles will shift from their *current location. The 12th Planet will pass between the earth and the sun, approaching from below the elliptic (from the direction of the South Pole) and move in a trajectory towards the North Pole. As the 12th Planet passes by the central portion of the earth, the magnetic influence of the 12th Planet will be so great that its North Pole's magnetic field will cause the Earth's North pole to deflect away about 90 degrees. This rapid movement of the Earth's molten interior core will pull the Earth's crust along with it. The resultant earthquakes, volcanic eruptions, mountain building, mega winds, and tidal waves will be on a scale beyond normal reference or imagination. The Zetas report that new land masses will rise in the Pacific Ocean, reducing its overall area; while land will sink in the Atlantic, expanding its current dimensions. Vast areas of both the East and West coasts, as well as the Mississippi valley of the United States will be inundated by tidal forces and permanently flooded. A large section of northern Europe, the western half of Australia, and most of Japan will go under water as well (as predicted by Edgar Cayce). “
There is a reason why the US and some other governments are so interested in Greenland, there is a reason why there are so many psychic kids in Greenland, there is a reason why the prophecy about Greenland has been erased from the bible.

During the period of non-rotation, obviously half of the earth will be exposed to the sun while the other side of the earth experiences darkness. This scenario corroborates with the biblical revelation and Hopi Prophecies concerning 3 days of darkness (Sitchin also points to many historical texts by ancient historians describing events from both the dark side and the illuminated side of the planet during past visits by the 12th Planet).
The 3 days of complete darkness.
“Return of The 12th Planet
The Zetas predict that the 12th Planet will pass closest between the Earth and the Sun in late Spring or early Summer of 2003, probably May or June. At that time, the earth, being completely overwhelmed by the gravitational influence of the 12th Planet, will stop rotating completely for 3 days or so. There are numerous historical references to 3 days of darkness (non-rotation) cited in the Bible, Hopi Legends, Mayan Epics, etc. and well referenced by Sitchin in the books of his Earth Chronicals”
Remember when I told you guys about the 13 families.
Stroll further down
Introduction
There is a worldwide conspiracy being orchestrated by a group of genetically related individuals (at least at the highest echelons) which include many of the very wealthy, politically powerful, and corporate elite of the world, as well as members of the solaced Black Nobility of Europe (especially the British Crown) whose goal is to create a One World (fascist) Government, stripped of nationalistic and regional boundaries, that is obedient to their agenda. Their intention is to effect complete control over every human being on the planet and to dramatically reduce four fifths of the world's population ( 5.5 Billion people), not only in such resouce-rich countries like Africa (with AIDS, Ebola, etc. ), but also in America, where too many patriotic Americans, mindful of the words of the US Constitution, are viewed as a threat to the One World Government Plan. While the name New World Order is the term most frequently used today when referring to this group, it's more useful to identify the principal organizations, institutions, and individuals who make up this vast interlocking group of conspirators.
The Illuminati is the oldest term commonly used to refer to the 13 bloodline families (and their offshoots) that make up the backbone of this controlling elite. Most members of the Illuminati are also members in the highest ranks of numerous secretive and occult societies which (in many cases) extend straight back into the ancient world. The upper levels of the tightly compartmentalized (need-to-know-basis) Illuminati structural pyramid ( The USA Dollar Bill) include planning committees and organizations that the public has little or no knowledge of. They include: the Council of 3, the Council of 5, the Council of 7, the Council of 9, the Council of 13, the Council of 33, the Grand Druid Council, the Committee of 300 (also called the "Olympians") and the Committee of 500 among others.
When I talk about being programmed I talk about this “ What most Americans believe to be "Public Opinion" is in reality carefully crafted and scripted propaganda designed to elicit a desired behavioral response from the public”

As I said Do Not Fear. “The NWO global conspirators manifest their agenda through the skillful manipulation of human emotions, especially fear. In the past centuries, they have repeatedly utilized a contrivance that NWO researcher and author David Icke has characterized in his latest book, The Biggest Secret, as Problem, Reaction, and Solution.” http://educate-yourself.org/catsafeareas.html Safe Areas

This is all I have to say, with no offence
 
 
Ethan Hawke
10:49 / 14.09.01
Were you buy any chance riding the F Train yesterday, drooling and babbling about Chuck Norris, a hole that is a man, and the slut and the virgin?

The schizos on the subway are usually bad enough, but when you are stopped for no good reason in the tunnel under the east river the day after a terrorist attack, and said schizo can't shut the fuck up for a minute, it's like you're living in "Twelve Monkeys" or something.

[ 14-09-2001: Message edited by: todd ]
 
 
Ganesh
11:22 / 14.09.01
Hey, hey, less of the 'schizo', please. Not a nice word for people who, pretty much, can't help they way they are.

The thread's titled 'Conspiracy'; at least people are keeping the wild theorising in here, where it's sort of appropriate.
 
 
The Knowledge +1
17:01 / 14.09.01
Holy shit
 
 
The Packard Goose
14:39 / 15.09.01
Um. . .not sure if this is the right thread to ventilate this onto, but. . .

Well, Congress just gave Bush a check for $40 billion. That I can deal with.

Bush has called to active duty 50,000 reservists. That I can deal with.

But Congress, the lawmakers of the United States, just passed a measure giving the President free reign to use "all necessary and appropriate force" in this war on terrorism. That scares me.

In a radio address yesterday, the President warned Americans that the war on terrorism is going to be a long, difficult process. I hope I'm wrong, but it's increasingly appearing that most of the fears of conspiracy "crackpots" in the last ten to twenty years are about to be realized.

Specifically: restricted individual liberties, violation of the Constitution in the name of national security, One World Government (perhaps under the flag of the US Empire?), black helicopters patrolling the skies, people being detained/interrogated for "suspicious behavior" (which, based on the events of the last couple of days, can now be defined so as to include speaking in Spanish, having a sterotypically "Arab" appearance, or carrying a bag). . .

If the US is seriously committed to eradicating terrorism, the only way they can even pretend to do so is to have total control over every bit of land, over every human mind, on planet earth.

I'm still crying about what happened Tuesday. The initial, overwhelming horror is now being supplemented by the individual stories of pain and loss that are coming out. My thoughts have been hazy, my guts doing most of the living for me in the last few days. And I live on the west coast, and I didn't know anyone who died or was injured Tuesday. I'm about as far-removed, physically and emotionally, as an American can be from the tragic events of Tuesday, and I'm still exhibiting signs of physical shock and emotional distress. I won't even bother to describe the nightmares of the past four nights, because I'm sure you all have had similar or worse.

The vast majority of Americans do not know what to do. We are scared and we are shaking and we are trying to put up a brave front, but we have no frame of reference for something like this. With as little warning, a hijacked plane could crash into my home today. Or a pipe bomb could destroy the bridge I drive to work over. Or a virus could be released into my water supply.

I suppose it's natural to look for a strong, parental comfort at a time like this. The tribe has been attacked; quick, find the nearest alpha male and do whatever he orders! I may be confused and frightened, but certainly someone, somewhere has a plan that we can follow to make things right again.

The people of America, including the US Congress, are putting an awful lot of faith in George W. Bush and his administration right now. And that's fine; that's as it should be; that's why the Office of the Presidency exists. But we are also putting an awful lot of power into the hands of the men who run the executive branch of this government. Men who may have no better idea than any of us how to realistically "stop" terrorism "permanently." Colin Powell said in a press conference two days ago that he, one of modern America's most respected soldiers and leaders, had never been trained, in all of his military life, to fight a war like this.

My fear is that, unable to develop a plan for this new type of war, unable to come to grips with the fact that, as a writer most of us know and respect said, the wars of the future will be fought, not for land, but for information, unable to lead the American people into a future of greater freedom and prosperity and bliss, the rulers of this country may fall back on what they are able to do.

Namely, engage in the same patterns of behavior that led them to the seats of power: be ruthless bastards who will crush anybody who gets in the way of their total and complete domination. For the greater good, of course.

Now, unlike ever before, we all must converse with our souls, our gods, our friends and neighbors, our hearts and minds.

The entire world is at war. Do you understand? The US Congress, the President of the United States, the leaders of America have declared that this nation is at war, and that this war may take our fighting men and women into any and every corner of the globe. Those who do not stand with us will be swept aside, with "all necessary and appropriate force." The American people, in their shock and pain and fear and rage, are ready to kill with zero compunction whatever person, people, or state our leaders label as enemy.

Now that the shock is subsiding a bit, my brain is starting to work again, and I am horrified at what is happening to this country. The terrorism of 9/11 must never be forgotten, but let's not sully the memories of those innocents who died by allowing ourselves to become as fanatical as the men who murdered them.

Try to think. Try to remember. Try to make this world a better place for yourself and those you love. Try to stop the impending war before it transforms our planet into a global concentration camp. Try to answer: which side are you on?

Sorry about the length of this post. I realize now that I wrote this more to myself than to my fellow Barbelithers. Trying to focus, to do what I ask in the previous paragraph. To enjoy a forum of truly free speech while such a thing still exists.

Thanks.
 
 
wembley can change in 28 days
14:46 / 15.09.01
quote:Originally posted by solid_state:

do you think the US administration would have stopped the attack if they knew about it beforehand?


Yes, they would have. There is no way that they actually knew the details of the attack beforehand. I'm as much for wild theorising as anyone else - and when I first heard about the attacks, I just assumed they were internal - but they did too much. It would never be an American program to fight on American soil. And they would never have taken out the World Trade Center.

The Empire is Order. In America, the order of the Empire is business. If you're going to start a fight, do you have to break your legs before you start as justification? Give yourself a black eye, maybe, but nothing on this scale.

Good question, though.
 
 
Naked Flame
15:33 / 15.09.01
Two (dis?)comforting thoughts...

Conspiracy presupposes the necessary competence to carry it out. That rules out the CIA.

Individuals are always going to be better at escaping control than governments are at imposing it.

[ 15-09-2001: Message edited by: Naked Flame ]
 
 
Ierne
15:50 / 15.09.01
I've been thinking about Solid State's post...and while conspiriacy theory isn't really my strong point:

1) Before this happened Bush was an international laughingstock. By extension, as he "represents" the US, so too the US is seen as a joke.

2) There's supposed to be a huge anti-globalization rally in DC at the end of this month.

3) on a more local level, there was to be an electoral primary in NYC to choose the candidates who would run in November to replace the much despised and hated Rudy Guiliani (who, by the way is a Republican).

Now, after all this has happened, Shrub and Rudy look like heroes, the DC police are getting much more money than they expected to "prepare" for the anti-globaization rally, and almost everyone who shat on us a week ago are giving us condolences now.

9/11 is the BEST THING THAT COULD HAVE EVER HAPPENED to the Republicans at this point in time, and they're going to milk it for all it's worth.
 
 
000
09:09 / 16.09.01
quote: by Solid Statedo you think the US administration would have stopped the attack if they knew about it beforehand?
http://rense.com

Skolnick - US Government
Had Prior Knowledge Of Emergency http://rense.com/general13/skolknow.htm

Echelon Warned US & Israeli Intel Hijacked Planes Were To Be Weapons http://rense.com/general13/ech.htm

Who Is Truly Behind The
Attacks On America? http://rense.com/general13/whoff.htm


When Will We Learn? http://rense.com/general13/brown.htm

US Pulled Plug On 500
Arab/Muslim Websites
Day Before Jetliner Attacks http://rense.com/general13/jet.htm


"If it is determined that this attack was directed from abroad against the United States, it shall be regarded as an action covered by Article 5 of the Washington Treaty," stated NATO Secretary General, Lord Robertson, after a meeting of the North Atlantic Council on the evening of 12 September. http://rense.com/general13/athird.htm

Gen. Jack Singlaub, the former U.S. supreme commander of all U.S. forces in Korea, told NewsMax that additional, more significant attacks against the U.S. could take place in the next several weeks http://rense.com/general13/chemasd.htm http://NewsMax.com


Senate OKs Increased Use
Of Carnivore And Wiretapping http://rense.com/general13/bbs.htm


The Militarization Of Earth http://rense.com/general13/harvmil.htm

Wake up!
 
 
Naked Flame
09:24 / 16.09.01
yes, but...

all of this only proves that the administration was/is incompetent, complacent, misinformed, and heavy-handed.

Not that we're being socially engineered or conspired against or otherwise betrayed by [y]our elected representatives.

This is good old fashioned human stupidity all the way. We're awake already, or we're dreaming we are. all we need to do is collectively wise up.
 
 
Naked Flame
09:31 / 16.09.01
unless, of course, you're right and I should start my fast-track enlightenment meditation now so that when the next attacks come I can be assured of reaching Nirvana. (would settle for Courtney Love.)

I hope you're not right for all our sakes.
 
 
Mystery Gypt
09:37 / 16.09.01
quote:Originally posted by MJ-12:


Don't you think they'd have gotten Bush a better script?


god, remember how many times the media reported that when bush was informed of what happened, he had to be pulled from a florida classroom where he was reading to school children? that's a hell of a script.

[ 16-09-2001: Message edited by: Mystery Gypt ]
 
 
Mystery Gypt
09:39 / 16.09.01
here's two guesses from the konformist:

quote:The conspiracy theory of the month:

Was Chandra Levy killed because she uncovered classified documents surrounding the plans of the 9-11-01 terrorist attacks?

Runner up:

Did the BushMob take the month of August off to coordinate the attack?
 
 
000
09:39 / 16.09.01
quote:by Naked FlameWe're awake already, or we're dreaming we are. all we need to do is collectively wise up.
I hope you're not right for all our sakes.


Waking up would be wising up.
The task that I have together with many others, is to try to make you see what is happening for real. I never asked for this to happen but something happened with me in 1999 and my great awakening came last year. It has been one long exhausting ride.
Even that my emotions are totally in peace I can not help but feeling sad , for what is about to happen and has started 911. The thing is for us to try to wake as many as people up, in the hope that not every body will fall for the traps they are putting out for you guys to voluntary step in.
The whole trick is to make you demand all that what is happening, it all has to be because you people want it. And now the people are demanding it.
I am terribly sorry to say this but I am right, no matter how many people here on barb would like to see me erased from this planet, things will happen. But if we can get as many as possible people awake, we can build a force of collective thoughts who will denounce violence and who will be there to help others, because of the fact that you were prepared and they were not.
Many people will suffer and many will die all over the world. WW3 is a fact. Total control states have now become our deadly reality. http://zetatalk.com has guidelines as to how to prepare, please do your self a favour, read it and have that in your house what you need to have when its time to get ready. If you don’t you will hate yourself in the end. It does not take that much of your time and at least you will know what to do if it starts. And if you don’t think this will happen and it doesn’t happen you can make all the jokes you want about me. Deal?
 
 
fluid_state
18:24 / 16.09.01
Laila, I think you're fruity and maybe even loony, but to erase you off the planet would leave an abscence of heart far larger than your physical form. Keep posting, I'll keep reading, and I'll never care about who's "right". Take care.
 
 
Naked Flame
18:45 / 16.09.01
Laila... no offence, but trying to turn most 'lithers on to conspiracy theories is like trying to turn Hugh Hefner on to lingerie.

Everyone here is as awake as they know how to be and striving to be more so. They may not use the same terminology as you but that doesn't mean they aren't switched on.
 
 
000
20:28 / 16.09.01
quote:by Naked FlameEveryone here is as awake as they know how to be and striving to be more so. They may not use the same terminology as you but that doesn't mean they aren't switched on.

I am happy to read this.

So I can proceed then.

http://rense.com/general13/orworse.htm Attack On US Raises Specter Of Germ War - Or Worse
What they are actually saying is that this will be the start of the worldwide depopulation plans administered by the N.W.O. http://educate-yourself.org/nwopopcontrol.html
“Domestically, the strategy is to make the public believe that bio attacks by foreign terrorists (like Osama bin Laden-who seems to be the government's latest incarnation of Hitler; he having replaced former title holders like Kadaffi, Hussein, and Milosevic for the honor) is inevitable and when it happens the government will say that they have tried to warn us all along. A similar tactic is being used by the government to accilimate the public to the notion that these new, bugs are showing up everywhere-birds in New York, wild deer and antelope in national parks, etc. and that they are being spread by international travel, etc. (same set of lies they used when AIDS started showing up in 1983-85).”

[ 16-09-2001: Message edited by: Laila ]
 
  
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