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CONSTRUCTING CELLS

gozer the destructor

12:27 / 27.03.02

I THINK THIS WOIULD BE THE RIGHT PLACE TO START A THREAD ON THIS...THE INVISIBLE CELLS ARE CONSTRUCTED OF FIVE INDIVIDUALS EACH TAKING THE ROLE OF THE SYMBOLIC ELEMENTS...ie. EARTH,AIR,WATER,FIRE,SPIRIT...WOULDN'T IT BE PRODUCTIVE TO START TO DISCUSS WHAT THESE ROLES MEAN WITH A VIEW TO FORMING CELLS AND BECOMING ACTIVE...WHAT ARE YOUR VIEWS?

Tom Coates

13:02 / 27.03.02

Are cells useful any more? I mean - we've GOT means of contact via this board. I suppose the question I'm asking is whether or not a cellular structure for dissidents is out of date - charmingly anachronistic - when one can conceal one's online identity and/or engage in much more fluid mechanisms of discussion, organisation and debate...

Sax

13:24 / 27.03.02

Cells would be viable if we were going to do active missions. Perhaps we should have a monthly Barbelith mission where five members who are in the same geographical location are chosen, they are each assigned an elemental role and then sent out to do something subversive, like helping old ladies across the road or sticking Barbelith flyers on Conservative Club windows. That sort of thing.

gozer the destructor

14:03 / 27.03.02

YES, THATS EXACTLY WHERE IM COMING FROM-BARBELITH SERVES AS A DISCUSSION MACHINE WHERE DEBATE IS THROWN AROUND BUT LITTLE ACTION TAKES PLACE (NOT THAT IM TAKING ANYTHING AWAY FROM THE EDUCATIONAL ROLE AS IT IS REALLY IMPORTANT) BUT I DON'T WISH TO REMAIN A SPECTATOR AND I THINK IT WOULD BE HEALTHY TO THINK ABOUT BREAKING OUT OF THE VIRTUAL AND HAVING SOME EFFECT...

HOWEVER...

I THINK WE NEED SOME FULL ON AGREEMENT ABOUT WHERE THIS GOES, SHOULD WE CONCENTRATE ON EDUCATION, POSSIBLY CULTURE JAMMING MISSIONS, OR SHOULD WE COMBINE THIS WITH A SENSE OF 'BREAKING THE MACHINE' AND BRING IN SOME MORE SUBVERSIVE ELEMENTS...WE NEED MORE POLITICAL DEBATE ABOUT THE WAY THAT OUR INVISIBLE COMMUNITY IS GROWING-ANARCHISTS ARE NOT UNORGANISED...

THIS WAS THE WAY DISCUSSION BETWEEN ANGEL, BILL POSTERS, FLYBOY AND MYSELF WENT LAST NIGHT AND I WANT TO SEE HOW THE REST OF THE COMMUNITY FEELS, MAYBE YOUR RIGHT TOM AND IT IS OUT OF DATE BUT WHERE ARE WE GOING?

seamonkey

14:51 / 27.03.02

Ever read Hakim Bey's "Immediatism"? Lots of ideas there, especially his views on the tong as a model for subversive revolutionaries.

sleazenation

14:58 / 27.03.02

err do you really need to post in all caps?

angel

15:02 / 27.03.02

Seamonkey - last night Gozer was talking less about the concept of activisim and more about the ACTIVE part of activision (sorry caps because I can't use html, not because I'm shouting).

Barbelith, and particularly London Barbelith people, have recently been moving more and more towards activism as members of Barbelith (ie doing things together rather than as individuals) and, again last night, Gozer was talking about whether it would be possible to harness the real life potential for cells and activism provided by the inspirational aspects of The Invisibles. (Gozer if I'm getting this wrong please jump right in and clarify).

gozer the destructor

15:03 / 27.03.02

No I haven't read it, and i didn't realise capital letters were offensive.

angel

15:03 / 27.03.02

..... errrr suddenly realise I might be sounding patronising, and this was unintended. Also I haven't read the book - Seamonkey are you able to paraphrase or pull up an example or two??

Cat Chant

15:04 / 27.03.02

Me, I don't think we need full-on agreement except (*possibly*) within each cell). Surely if we're talking about a cellular structure - could I say a 'rhizomatic' structure, to sort of bring together the old-skool notion of a cell with Tom's point about the virtual? - it shouldn't be the case that each cell is just acting out or expressing an overarching policy handed down from 'the top', even if that 'top' is thought of as "the community as a whole"?

I mean, I'm all for forming small groups for culturejamming, educational and subversive activities, I just don't think we need to formulate a Barbemanifesto for them.

And I find it hard to read all-caps as well, by the way.

gozer the destructor

15:04 / 27.03.02

Your spot on. I like the missions idea and these could be debated on the boards and then put into practice monthly perhaps, we ahve the technology.

Cat Chant

15:07 / 27.03.02

Sorry, just read your post, angel. I guess the question is - what relationship do we need between the name 'barbelith' and the missions carried out by individual cells? In order for a cell to act 'in (or under) the name of' barbelith, does its mission need to have been approved by the board in advance? Meself, I don't think so. Use the board to throw ideas around, but I'm wary of this 'monthly mission approved/defined in advance' structure.

seamonkey

15:14 / 27.03.02

For the complete text of "Immediatism" and other writings, check out this link: www.left-bank.org/bey/hbconten.htm

gozer the destructor

15:25 / 27.03.02

Yeas, the idea has obvious flaws, I agree deva, autonmy of the cell is important.

Utopia

18:32 / 27.03.02

i've been discussing doing shit like this with non-'lith friends (i know i know...discussing, what a pussy). if anybody from the phila/nj area is interested in this, pm me...and if anyone out there IS going to do something wacky/illegal DON'T DISCUSS IT HERE!!! this is still the real world and there are real consequences! computer usage is not that hard to track down, and the shit will hit the fan if you let it! and if any of you crazy guys and gals gets arrested for said wackyness, for christ's sake don't go yelling "BARBELITH LIVES!!!" or some other inane thing that would make this place hot.

god, i'm laughing as i write this. i hope you are too as you're reading it.

Utopia

18:34 / 27.03.02

and remember: secrecy is the key to subversion. no one else needs to know.

just some thoughts.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

01:12 / 28.03.02

Interesting idea, but this is sooo the wrong place to be discussing the kind of stuff an Invisibles™ cell would presumably be a-doin' of. Quite apart from the fact that stuff on the internet is traceable as fuck, you'd be posting it on a board to be read by 1000 or so people. Assuming that a person went down this kind of road, that person would be best off sorting things out IRL.

If you feel an urgent need to get active, then there are plenty of organizations out there who'll be only too happy to point you in the direction of your nearest counter-cultural happening. Check the web, get out there, see what's going on.

(PS:- I wouldn't say caps are offensive, exactly- it's just that they're usually used to indicate that the poster is shouting. Also, caps are harder to read than lowercase type so all-caps posts are probably best avoided in the interests of clarity.)

The Mr E suprise

06:06 / 28.03.02

First time I went to a Lith meeting I went 'lets do this... Or this..." Got many blank stares.

If four other South East England people want to catch up with me and play silly students, then cool (providing, he said, there's nowt illegal innit, said he looking for the O'Brien). Dunno about calling myself 'fire' or anything though...

gozer the destructor

06:39 / 28.03.02

I think the role of a discussion board is exactly that and as has been discussed what an individual cell gets up to is there business, I started the thread to see what the general attitude to forming active groups would be and there is obviously some...how about a SE london getting to know you gathering? if you send it via email rather than organise through boards..."BARBELITH LIVES!" oops

Tom Coates

07:32 / 28.03.02

I think it's absolutely clear that no one who wants to undertake some kind of activism should look to Barbelith for approval. Debate certainly. Finding people to do it with you, also certainly. But not approval...

Maybe we need a kind of 'activists wanted' board?

deja_vroom

09:12 / 28.03.02

I'd be up for the "missions" thingy, think it would be really good to put to practice some stuff.
Re: The extent of the board's influence:
Try to see Barbelith more as a nodal point, where people with similar attitudes towards the institutions of power can meet each other. Beyond that point, everything else - details, planning, instructions and further debating - would have to be conducted privately and outside the board.

Naked Flame

12:10 / 28.03.02

It's already happening. Has been for ages. I've laid out the basics for you in the following whitespace:

see? easy.

Sax

12:40 / 28.03.02

Heh. Nice and smooth, and all that.

Tits win

18:39 / 28.03.02

the Barbe must, i agree, be used for purely a place for discussion and thought. any form of planning seems out of place here. unless, as Tom suggested, "Maybe we need a kind of 'activists wanted' board?" and there be a specific forum for such things. that way there would be a better 'space' for such planning without the unnecessary interuption of theorisation which is better placed in the regular forums.

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