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danger money

13:37 / 13.09.01

seems Osama bin Laden (isn't that name German for "shop"?) is about the only candidate seriously in the frame.
I keep hearing that he is a "millionaire terrorist" or that he's a "multi-millionaire".
what does the size of his bank balance have to do with anything?
were these gains ill-gotten?
or is the point that he is stirring up the impoverished and brutalised people of Afghanistan but not sharing his wealth with them?
it seems unlikely to a relative pauper like me that someone would volunteer for a life of international villainy and have to go live with the bloody Taliban when he could have sat at home in Saudi counting his doubloons.
and it's that principle-fuelled drive to sacrifice which is seen, in more terrifying form, in the decision to be a "shaheed" /martyr yourself as a "suicide bomber".
it's a deranged choice but then history is full of "men of principle" who caused untold suffering to others. particularly when it was religious principle.....
has religion EVER been a force for good in this world?

Regrettable Juvenilia

13:40 / 13.09.01

Er, yes.

Can we please try and remember that there is very little relation between Osama Bin Laden (who we still don't know is responsible for the attacks) and mainstream Islam as practiced by millions of peaceful people around the world? That such attacks directly contravene the Islamic faith? Can we? please?

[ 13-09-2001: Message edited by: The Flyboy ]

14:00 / 13.09.01

The way they cover bin Laden in the press he is really coming off as a comic book supervillian. I mean this whole thing just totally sounds like the sort of plot the JLA would have to foil.

Ganesh

16:51 / 13.09.01

quote:Originally posted by The Flyboy:
[QB]Can we please try and remember that there is very little relation between Osama Bin Laden (who we still don't know is responsible for the attacks) and mainstream Islam as practiced by millions of peaceful people around the world? That such attacks directly contravene the Islamic faith?/QB]

I got into a silly argument about this today; my own fault for engaging in 'current events' with a pig-ignorant Edinburgh taxi driver. He started with "You realise it all started with asylum seekers" and proceeded to explain how a tactical nuclear strike should be used to wipe out the entire Middle East "because they're all the same, that lot". Pointed out that my brother-in-law was a 'moderate' Muslim orthopaedic surgeon living in Manchester, and he finally shut up and drove the last ten minutes in silence. Arse.

16:57 / 13.09.01

Ganesh

17:19 / 13.09.01

I think the 'millionaire' thing is repeatedly emphasised to imply that, somehow, bin Laden's even more of a hypocrite, raging against capitalism when he's never been touched by poverty himself.

17:49 / 13.09.01

quote: were these gains ill-gotten?

Partly inherited wealth, though I've been hearing that a lot of dosh and materiel came his way via the CIA's previous Afghan episodes... not to mention some claims that his dad helped finance Shrubya's post-college starter business (which, incidentally, was oil. amazing the start you get when your dad runs the CIA, eh?)

18:20 / 13.09.01

Flyboy makes a vital point about people who follow Islam having no connection to Bin Laden's flyboys. I wholeheartedly agree. but then, I don't think I made that assumption.
I've travelled the world and met many different types of Muslim and seen umpteen interpretations of the faith.
lots of Muslims living in my town too and all as shocked and upset as me about the unbelievable horror we all saw on Tuesday.

I wish I could see, still, where religion HAS been a force for good in this world. I'm not being ironic, I just can't think of any way it has ever done anyone any good.
& in the case of fundamentalist Islamic terrorists who soak themselves in a fanatical brand of it, I want to understand why they are driven to do what they do.
just as the various tribes in Ireland mask their mutual animosity in the colours of religion.

it's surely not Exorcist-like demon possession and yet people claiming religious principle have perpetrated some horrific acts of murder on other people which don't bear thinking about. why?
which I would still want to know if there proves to have been no Bin Laden connection with Tuesday's events.

seems to me the crucial FIRST step in the "war" against terrorism wherein Dubya wants to lead the world to victory, is understanding why such an actrocity might have occurred.
no use blindly striking out while tempers are hot. at the moment, the people in the U.S. are angry and looking for revenge, but long term that will get nobody anywhere.

Islam isn't the problem. it's just another cloak sickos dress their fervour and hatred up in. like every other religion, particularly the Christian religion, it is cited by the tiny percentage of the flock who are foam-flecked bigots in justification of their rabid behaviour.

18:32 / 13.09.01

Seems one reason they're pointing up his financial status - among others, ably illustrated above - is to 'prove' the theory that he has the wealth to fund such a complex and well-organised operation.

The Return Of Rothkoid

18:53 / 13.09.01

Zoser and Fly; this appeared in my inbox from a mailing list I'm on. No idea of the veracity of it, but I'd imagine that it'll get quoted a bit if it is - didn't Yusuf Islam (Cat Stevens as was) get quoted a lot around the time of the Rushdie fatwah annoucement? quote:MESSAGE FROM YUSUF.
I wish to express my heartfelt horror at the indiscriminate terrorist
attacks committed against innocent people of the United States yesterday.

While it is still not clear who carried out the attacks, it must be stated
that no right thinking follower of Islam could possibly condone such an
action: the Qur'an equates the murder of one innocent person with the murder
of the whole of humanity.

We pray for the families of all those who lost their lives in this
unthinkable act of violence as well as all those injured; I hope to reflect
the feelings of all Muslims and people around the world whose sympathies go
out to the victims at this sorrowful moment.

Yusuf Islam
Again, don't know how verified this is, but I think it's another good reminder - as if more were needed - that Islam is not encapsulated in what may be the actions of one rich man.

09:20 / 15.09.01

quote:Originally posted by The Flyboy:
Er, yes.

Can we please try and remember that there is very little relation between Osama Bin Laden (who we still don't know is responsible for the attacks) and mainstream Islam as practiced by millions of peaceful people around the world? That such attacks directly contravene the Islamic faith? Can we? please?

[ 13-09-2001: Message edited by: The Flyboy ]

Thank you. Several of my Moslem friends are being threatened by neighbors they thought they knew and who supposedly liked them. I guess ignorance and racism knows no bounds. These terrorists are not representative the Moslem faith and we need to remember that.

[ 15-09-2001: Message edited by: Anaconda Jones ]

Ganesh

09:53 / 15.09.01

Zoser, religion as a 'force for good' is a tricky one. In my experience, strong religious belief has occasionally been a source of strength for the individual but, when organised into groups, quickly develops an ulterior motive, usually angled towards the group leader...