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Invasion of Afghanistan

 
 
Ganesh
02:49 / 13.09.01
According to The Guardian, a full-scale invasion of Afghanistan is in preparation.

I went to bed early (too little sleep in the last 48 hours) and just got up again to compulsively check the board. Anyone else heard about this?
 
 
Slim
02:52 / 13.09.01
I haven't heard anything about this. I wouldn't be surprised though. All the major network polls show that the majority of Americans would support the decision to wage war.
 
 
YNH
03:09 / 13.09.01
Did I imagine a statement from the Afghani government that they would hand over bin Laden iff substantial evidence of involvement was provided?

And be patient with me, here: What, other than an internal economic boost, does the US gain by invading Afghanistan?
 
 
Ganesh
03:13 / 13.09.01
It all seems to be with the proviso that 'proof is found' implicating Bin Laden (which, according to one's information source is '70%' or '90% certain'). Nato are apparently drawing up plans, though...
 
 
YNH
03:16 / 13.09.01
Alright, then. That little bit of me that hopes for rational action and such just seems to say "Wait a week, find some proof." Alas, it is less than likely, eh?
 
 
Ganesh
03:24 / 13.09.01
Well, in cases of terrorism, it's often difficult to establish absolute, conclusive proof; circumstantial evidence is much more common. It all seems (to me) a flimsy basis on which to spark a worldwide war; like you, I hope they wait at least a week.
 
 
moriarty
03:31 / 13.09.01
I almost got into a big blow up with my roommate over the way things are going to go. In the end, admist the raised voices (mainly mine) I said that I just wished they would take a week to think this through. He stopped, looked at me, and said, "What do you mean a week? They aren't going to do anything that soon..." I told him that the demand for action seems to indicate that they may push for an attack within a few days, possibly this very night. He got very pale, as pale as me, and the discussion finished.
 
 
YNH
03:32 / 13.09.01
There just seems to be no hope for understanding. We've got dozens of experts appearing even on CBS (our most loathesome and villainous network) saying that bin Laden is at least unlikely, and then the repetition of his name in the wrap up, all feeding from the first reports. So now there are thousands of stories pointing at him, with no proof... already coded, and we're crying for war?

And that pesky bit about being a muslim guest... did we fire all our diplomats to afford more bombers?
 
 
Yagg
03:49 / 13.09.01
I think the US is still way too stunned to take any action. I think it's going to be awhile before anything happens. That's probably a good thing.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
07:18 / 13.09.01
quote:Originally posted by Teela Tomnoddy:
already coded, and we're crying for war?


This is the truly terrifying bit... so many people are talking as if Bin Laden had 'fessed up to this, you know? When in fact no proof has been offered at all, as yet. And even 'reasonable' people are saying that they hope this doesn't become a global conflict: but if Afghanistan is reduced to radioactive rubble, that's like, not that bad or something.

Argh.
 
 
Ganesh
08:50 / 13.09.01
Half-hearing CNN in the other room: it would appear the Taliban have said that, if the US strikes against Afghanistan, 'more attacks will take place'. Stakes are upped yet again...
 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
08:50 / 13.09.01
Oh, sweet Christ. I was just talking to Whisky about why that would be an amazingly bad thing. Now I've scared myself to Hell and you tell me it's happening?

This is a fucking nightmare.
 
 
Chubby P
10:01 / 13.09.01
Skys defense analyst said the following:

"a limited nuclear strike may be considered by the US as the best opportunity of killing bin Laden, while keeping other casualties to a minimum."

What the hell is this man thinking? How on earth is a nuclear strike the best way to kill ONE man! The radiation would wipe out generations for years to come!

The full report can be read here

This is getting very fucking scary!
 
 
rizla mission
10:32 / 13.09.01
fuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuck
 
 
Knodge (WHA-HEY!!!)
10:40 / 13.09.01
This is terrible. I keep having moments when I am almost filled with panic about this. My nearest and dearest are in the States and I just want them home before Mr Bush decides to exacts his response. Am I being hysterical?
 
 
Ierne
10:45 / 13.09.01
And what if bin Laden isn't responsible? What if someone else hired these guys? He's not the only who hates the US enough to do something like this.

Maybe what Ganesh says is true...but I don't want 70% or 90% or 99.999999%. I want 100% certainty before more innocent people suffer.

Perhaps that's naive.
 
 
The Sinister Haiku Bureau
10:58 / 13.09.01
quote:
(from article)
The threat of nuclear weapons being used is "at its highest since Nagasaki", according to Sky's defence analyst.

Is this situation really closer to nuclear war than, say, the cuban missile crisis?
Are things really that bad, or is this just hype?
very scary though.


Even if Bin Laden isn't responsible for this attack, the afghanis should hand him over anyway for the previous acts of terrorism, and to try and placate the US.
 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
11:04 / 13.09.01
Never mind that for a moment. Consider the following...
  • Afghanistan is perfect for guerilla war, and the fighters there were in many cases trained by the CIA and equipped by the US.
  • Afghanistan's near neighbour, Pakistan, is a nuclear power in a tense confrontation with India, which is currently (I think) supported by the US. A US invasion force in Afghanistan will both threaten Pakistan and might give India - also nuclear - a sense of invulnerability.
  • Russia will be eager to help the US in attacking Afghanistan. Russia's border wars are historically Christian/Muslem. The US and the majority of NATO powers are also perceived as Christian. So this will seem to the parts of the Islamic world like a new Crusade.
  • An invasion will produce civilian casualties and verify the perception that this is a war of extinction. The sheer number of dead is already vastly greater on the Muslem side.
  • A ground invasion and the accompanying fanfare and jingoism will preclude until far too late any possibility of self-examination amongst the allied powers, and entrench the enmity to the Islamic world which is rising now.
  • More and more and more people will die.
 
 
Chuckling Duck
13:10 / 13.09.01
Other things to consider:

The Taliban is not Afghanistan. This religious movement sprung from Pakistani religious schools. It swept to power over the bodies of many religious and political rivals, and is unpopular with many Afghanis--though of course there’s no polls to say exactly how unpopular. Still, they have internal rivals, at least some of whom favor a democratic state.

The Taliban is also unpopular with its geographical neighbors. The US might find allies in the newly elected leadership of Iran, among Pakistani moderates, the Gulf War participants, and definitely in NATO, India and the ex-Soviet states.

The father of the acting president of the US has said that his gravest error was not pressing the attack and removing Saddam when he had the chance. I imagine that the new/old administration of Bush cronies will be avid to fight their last war over again. When they move against Afganistan, I expect their goal will be not only to capture bin Ladin and his organization, but to topple the Taliban.

Which, frankly, isn’t a bad idea, considering what a force for ignorance and barbarity the Taliban has been. But I couldn’t begin to weigh the potential bloodshed against the potential benefits.
 
 
deja_vroom
13:17 / 13.09.01
World wars never need reasons, they just needed excuses.
See the assassination of Archiduke Ferdinand(WWI), the question about telegraphic poles(WWII), or the invasion of Kuwait by Iraq...
Swallow if you want...
 
 
wembley can change in 28 days
13:31 / 13.09.01
Out of curiosity, has anyone heard if the Doomsday Clock has been re-set?
 
  
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