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Revelations 18 and NYC

 
 
Rex City-zen
16:08 / 12.09.01
Anyone in the know have any thoughts on this one??
 
 
Ganesh
16:13 / 12.09.01
Isn't the contents of Revelations - along with Nostradamus's prophecies - routinely applied to every single large-scale event which might reasonably be classed a 'major tragedy'?
 
 
Rex City-zen
16:15 / 12.09.01
Have you read the chapter??
Yes you are correct Ganesh but I feel this one truly applies...
Go on...read it.
I'll be right here.
Tell me what you think...
 
 
Jack Fear
16:21 / 12.09.01
Rex... sweetie... I know you've got the best intentions here...

But really, this isn't the time.
 
 
Rex City-zen
16:31 / 12.09.01
Jack-
Sorry if I upset you, I mean no malice. I noticed someone posted "Is this the end of the world" thread in here and it got me thinking on this topic.
You know I have the best intentions...I was just combing for info- sorry.
 
 
Ganesh
16:37 / 12.09.01
Rex: like Nostradamus, it depends on selective interpretation. It's any empire falling, anywhere. The 'in one hour' stuff fits, sure, but there's a whole lot more doesn't.

I'm sure there'll be time aplenty for this stuff later.
 
 
Jack Fear
16:38 / 12.09.01
'salright, man.

I know it's as tempting to make the "rush to judgment" on the metaphysiocal level as on any other. But it's just as wrong.

There will plenty of time for combing the events for mystical significance AFTER the bodies are buried.

Reeeeee-spect.
We cool.
 
 
Rex City-zen
16:45 / 12.09.01
brrr...

Peace.
 
 
jUne, a sunshiny month
20:15 / 12.09.01
(yep, i already wrote this in some other topic...)

some friend of mine just sent me these shit.
i dunno if i've got to take care of it or not.
please check it out and let me know what you think about... link 1 link 2

[ 13-09-2001: Message edited by: Tom Coates ]
 
 
Ofermod
09:23 / 13.09.01
Someone's got to make sure the officials take a look at that. The email address is bogus, but they can talk to the moderator of the board and probably get the IP address he logged on from.
 
 
Mr Tricks
09:23 / 13.09.01
So um... why don't you link to or post those bits here for those of us who don't have a bible handy...

I guess I would have to disagree with the honorable Jack Fear re: "But really, this isn't the time."


84 bodies uncovered so far 5 living...

I'm will to delve into the metaphysics of this...
 
 
Rex City-zen
17:51 / 13.09.01
I agree- we must always approach the world from all angles not just when it is convienent or to look intresting...
...but I do understand the sensitivity issues though...
...all I am saying is look it up...in the mean time I will try to post it up for y'all.
 
 
Rex City-zen
18:06 / 03.10.01
Here it is:

The Revelation
of St. John the Divine
18

The Fall of Babylon
1 And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory.

2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, Is. 21.9 and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird. Is. 13.21 · Jer. 50.39

3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, Jer. 51.7 and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.

4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, Is. 48.20 · Jer. 50.8 that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, Jer. 51.9 and God hath remembered her iniquities.

6 Reward her even as she rewarded you, Ps. 137.8 · Jer. 50.29 and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled, fill to her double.

7 How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow.

8 Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, Is. 47.8, 9 death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.

9 ¶ And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning,

10 standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come. Ezek. 26.16-18

11 ¶ And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more:

12 the merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thyine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble,

13 and cinnamon, and odors, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men.

14 And the fruits that thy soul lusted after are departed from thee, and all things which were dainty and goodly are departed from thee, and thou shalt find them no more at all.

15 The merchants of these things, which were made rich by her, shall stand afar off for the fear of her torment, weeping and wailing,

16 and saying, Alas, alas, that great city, that was clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls!

17 For in one hour so great riches is come to nought. And every shipmaster, and all the company in ships, and sailors, and as many as trade by sea, stood afar off,

18 and cried when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, What city is like unto this great city!

19 And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas, that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate. Ezek. 27.25-36

20 Rejoice over her, thou heaven, Jer. 51.48 and ye holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her.

21 ¶ And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, Jer. 51.63, 64 and shall be found no more at all. Ezek. 26.21

22 And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; Ezek. 26.13 and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee;

23 and the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: Jer. 25.10 for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.

24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth. Jer. 51.49

What do you think?
Did I wait lonk enough to post this??
 
 
Jack Fear
18:18 / 03.10.01
Yeah. But you'll have to excuse me if I don't fall all over it. Because that passage sounds like a description of like the great fire of Rome, to me.

See, the thing to remember is that "revelations" and apocalyptic books were two-a-ha'penny in John's time, so he was writing in an established literary tradition. Most of those "revelations" made no real attempt to predict the future--they simply recast current events of the day in allegorical terms.

John believed that the End Times were happening even as he wrote, right around him. It's no coincidence that the Roman Emperor Nero's name, in the Jewish numerological system, translated to 666: Rome was Babylon, and Nero the Great Beast.

John's Revelation isn't about an armageddon to come: it's about an armageddon that's already happened, 2,000 years ago.
 
 
Rex City-zen
18:25 / 03.10.01
Wisdom in your statements.
True...it does sound like rome...but is America not the new Rome?
We can atribute revelations as we see fit- I personally belive the apocalypse took place in 1945-47 for obvious reasons.
The text rings out to me though...more than the nostradamus hoax prophecies being circulated now.
 
 
the Fool
23:21 / 03.10.01
quote:Originally posted by Rex City-zen:

True...it does sound like rome...but is America not the new Rome?
We can atribute revelations as we see fit- I personally belive the apocalypse took place in 1945-47 for obvious reasons.


If a prophecy comes true, does it just get recycled for the next time span or does it become defunct. If this St John prophecy was for the fire of Rome, what is it now and what is the point of a prophecy that has passed its used by date?

How can you tell if a prophecy comes true if its all a cryptic 4th dimensional riddle? It could mean anything at anytime.

Like an echo of a song at the back of your mind. If you don't like the song, how do you get it out of your head?

Do prophecies help us? I don't think they do. I tend to think they just make people afraid. Within linear time, acurate prophesing just means less free will.

Another thing.

Would a prophet from the year 0-100 have hir visions distorted by TV? Who's to say St John wasn't just watching ID4 on psychic cable TV?
 
 
Devin 1984
23:25 / 03.10.01
The same verses were pointed out in 1991 with Saddam Hussein, and the same verses will continue to be pointed out until the sun burns out.
 
 
The Return Of Rothkoid
23:25 / 03.10.01
And then it'll have been proved correct!

Ahem.
 
 
rizla mission
12:52 / 04.10.01
quote:Originally posted by Rex City-zen:

We can atribute revelations as we see fit- I personally belive the apocalypse took place in 1945-47 for obvious reasons.


Just out of interest, doesn't that miss the 'obvious reasons' by a year or two?
 
 
Dee Vapr
14:29 / 04.10.01
This passage is just a great tract on the ancient themes of the price of debauchery, the consequences of sin (see Sodom and Gomorrah et al..) - it's a bit a moral leap to suggest that whole of New York's population is indulged in such moral badness (and by a corollary, the whole of the US) and then apply it in this context. I wager that a lot of deeply unhedonistic / spiritual people were killed in the 911 events.

The passage is also factually incorrect, as well as being hella vague - it talks about

quote:Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, Jer. 51.63, 64 and shall be found no more at all.

Which is evident bollocks, New York's still there (so is most of the Pentagon), after all. Unless you define the WTC as a "city" - whatever way you describe the "city" as a moral one, physical one etc - the idea of total descruction being applied is a big leap, again.

This thread is kind ironic, seeing it was the misinterpretaion of a religious text which probably lead to the events in the first place.
 
 
The Damned Yankee
14:52 / 04.10.01
quote:Originally posted by Rex City-zen:
Wisdom in your statements.
True...it does sound like rome...but is America not the new Rome?
We can atribute revelations as we see fit- I personally belive the apocalypse took place in 1945-47 for obvious reasons.
The text rings out to me though...more than the nostradamus hoax prophecies being circulated now.


Last time I checked, Rome was still Rome . But I get your point.

But this "prophecy" can be fairly applied to every major world power that has been taken to the mat in the last 2000 years, from the Romans on down. The Bible and other religious texts are chock full of vague statements just begging for somebody to apply them to any given situation.
 
 
Jack Fear
14:57 / 04.10.01
Well, no... they're full of very specific references that can only be fully understood if you understand the context of the time, place, and political situation in which they were written.

It's when the reader starts trying to apply those reference to the time, place and political situation in which s/he's reading that trouble starts.

[ 04-10-2001: Message edited by: Jack Fear ]
 
  
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