BARBELITH underground
 

Subcultural engagement for the 21st Century...
Barbelith is a new kind of community (find out more)...
You can login or register.


New Yorkers/DC-ers Check In

 
 
mondo a-go-go
13:20 / 12.09.01
i just realised we don't have a thread for this. know flux=rad, ierne and ralph are ok and alive. what about the others?
 
 
grant
13:36 / 12.09.01
Where's deb?
Where's Grendix?

[ 12-09-2001: Message edited by: grantb ]
 
 
deb
15:24 / 12.09.01
hey..

all my family members who worked in the area are safe.. friends who worked in the 3 block radius are in shock but are okay overall..

i was blading on the bike path across the manhtn bridge when the second plane hit, we [the construction worker and i] didn't know it was a plane cause we were north of it. we just stood there and stared -- then construction workers were running and shouting to go back into brooklyn..

when moving around in the village area.. everything was closed.. and people were just sitting.. standing.. not saying much.
everywhere.. tvs and radio were all turned on, volume high.

on the way home this morning [wed] all these trucks and ambulances were parked in downtown brooklyn, getting dust brushed off of them.

i can't stop watching the television.
what i am afraid of is a knee-jerk reaction.. guiliani is urging the city to keep in mind that it is individuals and not an entire nation who is/are responsible.. but then a friend of mine just told me that a friend of hers who lives in queens got a hate message on her machine last night, her last name is mohammed.

the people in the city are all treating each other differently.. with more consideration and so forth.

grant + matt.. thanks for emailing.

today we all just feel kinda quiet.

take care all.

deb
 
 
mondo a-go-go
17:29 / 12.09.01
good to read you're alive, deb. i was going to email, but i couldn't find your address, so i'm glad i started this thread...
 
 
Cherry Bomb
20:06 / 12.09.01
Wyrd, I almost hate to ask... but I notice we really haven't heard any word from you since yesterday. Any word on your sister?
Please let us know.
 
 
Lionheart
09:37 / 13.09.01
I'm okay, enamon's okay. My aunt's okay. My parents' friend is okay due to the fact that he was on vacation. My dad is also okay because he's not working downtown anymore.
 
 
mondo a-go-go
18:43 / 13.09.01
bringing this back to the top...anyone else?

check in even if we don't know you!
 
 
Naked Flame
18:46 / 13.09.01
bump
 
 
Mazarine
19:48 / 13.09.01
I'm fine, but I'm about half an hour outside the city, so that's not really a surprise. I know internet access has been sketchy reliability-wise at my school, I wouldn't be surprised if the same was true of other schools as well. This is the first time I've been able to get here in a while.

I hope all of you in the city are okay.
 
 
mondo a-go-go
08:48 / 14.09.01
bump
 
 
tracypanzer
14:01 / 14.09.01
I've gone by other names on this site but for some reason because of the recent events it feels right to go by the name my friends know me by. I've been a reader and sometime poster here for a couple of years now, and it was on Tuesday that I realized how important this site is, for myself and others. Barbelith was the site I went to almost immediately (after checking to see that my girlfriend was OK) and remains one of the few places I can go to for what I feel is probably one of the most balanced dialogues about what happened on 11 September 2001, and what will happen in the days to come.

As the TV news coverage grows increasingly more towards telling me how I should feel about what happened, how I should feel about the people responsible, I rely on this site to give me a much appreciated rational, intelligent, and international perspective. After an initial shock, the propaganda machine is starting to run in earnest, and that is the last thing this country and the world needs right now.

There is still so much about what has happened and what I've seen that I just cannot put into any sort of coherent thought, much less words. But I'd like to thank all of you for posting. This site, along w/ the way New Yorkers and many many others have come together has given me hope that we can change things for the better, and it makes me sad to think that more lives will be lost before this happens.

This ended up being a much longer post than I had anticipated. I'm watching live coverage from the National Cathedral in Washington DC right now, and no matter how you feel about politics and religion, this is a moving thing. All my friends and loved ones made it out OK, but I know people who know people who didn't. I have a feeling that a lot of us do.
 
 
Planet B
16:10 / 14.09.01
Anyone know about all the good people at disinfo.com. I know they're in NY, but not sure where, though the site's been down since the attack and their email list hasn't gotten any new messages. Any ideas about where to look would be appreciated.
 
 
betty woo
17:15 / 14.09.01
Not 100% sure, but I think the Disinfo folks work out of Razorfish Studios, 419 Lafayette - downtown Manhattan, but far enough away from the WTC that they should be okay.
 
 
deb
17:24 / 14.09.01
the disinfo/razorfish offices are well out of range of the financial district.. i just emailed them to see what was up and how they are doing. let you know when i know
 
 
deb
18:01 / 14.09.01
so it turns out the disinfo had moved out of rfish studios a couple weeks ago, but all are well there as it is..
 
 
Planet B
18:34 / 14.09.01
so disinfo's offices are safe? glad to hear it, if so... but strange the site's been down since the attack and there've been no disinfo emails.
 
 
Planet B
18:35 / 14.09.01
so disinfo's offices are safe? glad to hear it, if so... but strange the site's been down since the attack and there've been no disinfo emails.
 
 
MJ-12
18:55 / 14.09.01
it's been going down for a looong while now, no doubt due to losing some highly cool staff over the past year.
 
 
Mystery Gypt
01:22 / 15.09.01
hey guys. i actually came into NYC on sunday night, returning for the first time since i went to LA 6 months ago. so far as i can tell, everyone i know in ny is ok. i am very glad that i was in ny for all of this, the city and it's people are such an important part of my life that it seems necessary i be here.

i'm spending the weekend with my parents in boston. A neighbor here (who i didn't know, though my parents did) was on one of the flights. Another neighbor here got a phonecall from her best friend -- aboard another.

i'll be back in ny on monday, and i'll remain there for a least another week. i'm not so keen on flying to LA too soon, nor am i that thrilled to leave ny. i have been so amazed at the spirit and emotions in the street, it feels like the greatest place on earth and i have never been so moved before to think of a city as a living being, with all of us as its blood.

i hope to see some of you around the city next week.

/adam
 
 
Not Here Still
10:55 / 15.09.01
Wyrd has tried to put an update in Conversation, but it leads to a different thread.

Can anyone fix this?
 
 
grant
15:40 / 17.09.01
top
 
 
FinderWolf
17:22 / 17.09.01
I'm fine, my loved ones are fine.

RE: Grant's response

I think Grant is an intelligent man, and he makes some very valid points here about the fact that the U.S.'s hands are hardly clean. The US has done many things in its handling of Middle East situations and 'behind the scenes' black ops stuff that could certainly be categorized as wrong.

And I also agree that mindless, bloodthirsty, mob-mentality retaliation is not the way to go here.....not if we want a world left standing and remotely peaceful for our children.

BUT..... it is not so cut-and-dry that "The U.S. are the real bad guys here; no better than the ones they call 'enemies'." The world is not so simple, there are grey areas, MANY grey areas, on both sides. One might say we tried to help Israel because they're a democracy, they were created by the UN (I think) in the 50s, because no one else would help them and otherwise they would be annhilated by the Palestians. One might say we tried to help stop genocide in Kosovo for no selfish reason other than a desire to see some stability in that volatile region of the world.

One could say that we attacked Iraq because they invaded another country, and one could say are we supposed to do nothing as countries attack each other? (Witness the folly of the Great Appeaser in WW II: "OK; Hitler, you can have these countries, but don't take any more, OK?")

If we do nothing in response to what is surely an act of war on the US, what message are we sending? That this kind of mass destruction is OK? That we've learned our lesson and will now stay out of the Middle East entirely? That we recognize our wrongdoings and apologize for them? Let's be realistic; peace is not the answer here. I wish it were, though -- believe me. I just don't think there's any way to salvage this through just mediation and politics alone.

One could say we bombed Afghanistan because we had good evidence that we were bombing a training camp for terrorists, because we had to have some kind of response to the almost simultaneous bombing of our embassies. Which must have been somewhat true, since reports say universally that "bin Laden got out 20 minutes before the bombs hit", which means he was there beforehand. Bin Laden has repeatedly spoken of his holy war on the US. But I'm not saying he's the only one involved here.....of course not.

I realize that to the average citizen, of Iraq, Afghanistan, or the United States, bombs and bombs, and destruction and deaths of loved ones are just that. But would you say "Well, many innocents were killed in WW I and WW II who were not Nazis or fascists, therefore those wars never should have taken place, the Allies shouldn't have formed or taken action because someone's going to get hurt?"

Someone is ALWAYS going to get hurt. Now, I'm aware that we supported bin Laden when the common enemy was Russia. I'm aware that we essentially put Saddam Hussein in power years ago, and that we gave the Taliban money to stop drug production/trade. I'm NOT saying those were all smart ideas. I'm not saying America doesn't have corruption and many bad calls, mistakes, and arrogance in its government. But you know what? Show me a country who doesn't have any of those things in its government. I'll be waiting.

I simply hope and pray that cooler heads prevail, thinking strategy, tactics, and intelligence gathering good information and evidence of which groups did this, and whatever military response tries as much as humanly possible to minimize civilian casualties on BOTH sides. I don't think the US is out to destroy the lives of average people in ANY country who have nothing to do with the acts of their government, clearly unlike the terrorists who planned and executed Tuesday's bombing.

Are you aware that the US and the UN enacted what is called "soft sanctions" to prevent the starvation of the Iraqi people? They had a system where the sanctions were only for military items and not for food. (I'm not clear on the details of this, but I know I read about it many times in the past.) This was only to prevent the Iraqi government from stockpiling more weapons and creating biological weapons. Do you all remember the simple request of the UN Inspectors? Do you recall how that was flatly denied?

Let's not forget the Taliban is the gov't that needlessly destroyed Buddhist statues while the rest of the world sat back and did nothing. Let's not forget the Taliban implemented the system where members of other religions had to wear ribbons identifiying themselves as such -- Nazi Germany, anyone? Let's not forget Americans are under trial (last I heard) for preaching Christianity, and where conversion to Christianity is an offense punishable by death. Let's not forget all the terrorist attacks on us in the past years. Let's not forget how Iraq invaded Kuwait. Are we evil because we not only wanted to send a message that it's not OK to just invade any country whenever you feel like it, but that we also had an economic interest there and needed to protect it?

I realize all of the above has nothing to do with these attacks. What I am saying is the US may not be a boy scout, but I think our track record is a whole lot better than many other countries. I don't think the US' record is "state-sponsored terrorism", as it's often spoken of in the Middle East.

Also take into account that the US has struggled with the question of "How much should we police the world? How much, to what extent, should be help or defend other countries?" The other day (before these attacks) I read about how Clinton was criticized for not stopping 4 other genocides that were taking place in Europe. We try to stop one and we hear "why didn't you stop these others?" "Why don't you solve world hunger?" "Why don't you defend us more over in Europe?"

When other countries go through natural disasters, we give LOTS of help, food, economic aid, and such. We helped rebuild countries that were our enemies in the major wars. But when floods, tornadoes, etc. hit us, do we get $3 million in aid from other countries?

I worry that if today's media existed back during WW II, CNN would be flooded with images of injured, dead and bleeding Nazis, as Hitler pointed out the slaughter of innocent Germans and such. I worry that people would begin to think "Well, are the Nazis so horrible that we need to annhiliate them?" "Many countries around the world violate human rights." "Our record isn't so hot either." "I don't want any innocents hurt." "What if we can't win?" "What if we don't win?" "Let's stay out of affairs that don't concern us, adopt isolationism and let whatever happens happens in Europe."

I notice that the responses to Grant's essay seem to be either totally "No, we have to go to war, this was evil and the US has never done anything so horrid" and "The US is just as horrible as any other country and all this is to bolster Bush's ratings."

I fall in the middle. There are grey areas, here, folks. But one could also say Germany followed Hitler because they were still resentful from being shafted by the League of Nations' treaty at the end of WW I, where their land got divided up among other (victorious) countries. One could say "The US was indirectly one of the many causes of WWII." One could find a reason against America for any action we've ever taken. Likewise, one could say "it's their fault, they did such and such first" about ANY country.

Let's recognize the world is not black and white.

And I seriously do not believe bolstering Bush's ratings is the goal of this whole thing. What a sick, horrible thing to even suggest this is "Wag The Dog." Would the current administration have preferred peace and the public making fun of Bush throughout the rest of his term? I certainly fucking well believe so.

Tony Wolf
 
 
Ierne
18:12 / 17.09.01
Tony: glad you posted. I was worried about you.
 
  
Add Your Reply