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Underground > Policy & Help >

Group norms

13:07 / 23.03.02

I was reading something today which seems very relevant to Barbelith and to certain threads in the policy section.
It was about this experiment by a guy named Stanley Schacter. Can't find much online about it, and I'm not gonna type out the chapter, so here is some commentary on one site...it gives the gist:

A certain amount of social activity aimed at ensuring adherence to group norms is generally regarded as beneficial, because it promotes coordination of efforts and a sharing of values within the group. However, such influence processes have certain potentially adverse effects which may become pronounced under conditions of isolation and confinement. Strong social pressures can inhibit the flow of creative ideas, particularly in a cohesive group. Individuals may fear that unorthodox suggestions will incur the leader's displeasure, undermine morale, or lead to rejection. This fear is justified, for it has long been known that a person who violates group norms is likely to trigger a specific series of events (Schachter, 1951). The initial reaction is an increase in communications intended to bring that person back into line. If these attempts are unsuccessful, communication ceases and the deviant is ignored. Under normal conditions, such ostracism may simply result in the deviant leaving the group, but under conditions of isolation and confinement, the deviant cannot leave the group.

Interesting, eh?

14:42 / 23.03.02

Sorry, I don't see the relevance here.

Barbelith has a diverse range of people that contribute thoughts and ideas to the board; there are no two people alike. Although some folks like to whinge about "cliques," the only "group norm" anyone is asked to adhere to is that people listen to and respect one another.

Strange Machine Vs The Virus with Shoes

17:27 / 23.03.02

quote:Sorry, I don't see the relevance here.
Barbelith has a diverse range of people that contribute thoughts and ideas to the board; there are no two people alike. Although some folks like to whinge about "cliques," the only "group norm" anyone is asked to adhere to is that people listen to and respect one another.

But everybody has something in common, we are all in the same place and are thus connected, making us a group. All groups have norms, whether concious or otherwise, respect for others is an important and basic group norm. A group norm is still a group norm and the above text relates to those who violate this. We, as people are usually stronger in groups of some sort or another. Look at people who are totally isolated.

[ 23-03-2002: Message edited by: Tom Coates ]

18:39 / 23.03.02

Applies to Barbelith...but also applies to trying to order a pizza with two other people

04:37 / 24.03.02

probably not, as the pizza ordering group is temporary. the group norms described above are developed from a more long-term system.

04:37 / 24.03.02

Well, I don't think we can really argue that Barbelith isn't a group. Nor that groups cannot contain a diverse range of people. I'm not presenting this example as any sort of commentary just a point of interest.
I wish I could track down a full online account.
Just interesting how we seem to replicate an experiment carried out in 1951. Of course, an online community would be an excellent place to carry out an experiment. In fact, I'm sure many people do just that by experimenting with fictionsuits.

11:33 / 25.03.02

But everybody has something in common, we are all in the same place and are thus connected, making us a group. All groups have norms, whether concious or otherwise, respect for others is an important and basic group norm. A group norm is still a group norm and the above text relates to those who violate this. We, as people are usually stronger in groups of some sort or another. – panarchy

Thanks for the clarification, panarchy – I definitely agree that Barbelith is a group. But I still don't understand how this part of the synopsis fits Barbelith:

Strong social pressures can inhibit the flow of creative ideas, particularly in a cohesive group. Individuals may fear that unorthodox suggestions will incur the leader's displeasure, undermine morale, or lead to rejection. This fear is justified, for it has long been known that a person who violates group norms is likely to trigger a specific series of events...

I see lots of "unorthodox suggestions" on the board, and if anything it tends to enhance the flow of creative thought here. We may be a group with various things in common, but we are not homogenous. And we don't have a "leader" whose dis/pleasure would be a cause for concern; Tom owns the board, but he's not in charge of what we think and how we express ourselves.

The initial reaction is an increase in communications intended to bring that person back into line. If these attempts are unsuccessful, communication ceases and the deviant is ignored. Under normal conditions, such ostracism may simply result in the deviant leaving the group, but under conditions of isolation and confinement, the deviant cannot leave the group.

There is a large difference between "unorthodox suggestions" and
asinine behavior.

If someone disagrees with a majority of people on the board, and can discuss and/or argue hir case effectively, intelligently and with respect for other people that s/he's interacting with, that person will most likely be seen as an asset to Barbelith.