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So Solid Crew

 
 
Jackie Susann
09:45 / 03.02.02
I picked up their '21 Seconds' single the other day on a whim and I really like it, but I have no idea who they are. Are there really 30 of them? Do as many people hate them as they seem to think?

And I thought UK hip hop was all Roots Manuva/Ninja Tunes type stuff, so if I like So Solid what else is worth checking out?
 
 
Spatula Clarke
09:45 / 03.02.02
UK Garage is the term here. Yep, there's about 30 of them.

I can't really take a group who are already bitching about the stresses of fame very seriously.

Amazed that there hasn't been a So Solid ruck on the board yet. Let's see if I can kick one off.

They recently hit the news in a fairly big way. Last year, one of their members twatted a fifteen year-old female in the face and smashed her jaw to pieces after she refused to have sex with him. He got, IIRC, a fine.

This was later followed up by an interview in which another member justified his actions by saying (paraphrasing here, but this really is the gist of what was said):

"Look, put yourself in his shoes. You're a young man, you've got a girl coming on to you. Then, all of a sudden, she decides she doesn't want to go through with it. You're going to lose face in front of your friends. What was he supposed to do?"

You then release a single complaining about all the haters. Crass? You think?

Bring on the old Skrewdriver argument.
 
 
Seth
09:45 / 03.02.02
I would have loved to buy the album, as the stuff I've heard rocks. I just can't get past how reprehensible that act was, and that justification. The idea that punching a fifteen year old is somehow a way of saving face is so totally alien and just plain wrong it beggars belief.
 
 
Seth
09:45 / 03.02.02


[ 03-02-2002: Message edited by: expressionless ]
 
 
Rev. Wright
10:10 / 03.02.02
As with the painful 'g' elements within US RnB/Hip Hop, the UK Garage scene is in a similar state. Yes, there are some great productions and yes, it is up and coming from the street (urban forms), but it also brings with it the state of decay that inner city life and ignorant policies breed.
May I suggest that you search under UK Unnderground Garage, for the likes of 'Pay As You Go Cartel', 'Zed Bias' and others, don't be put off by the actions of one supposed 'super' group.
 
 
No star here laces
07:07 / 04.02.02
If you buy one So Solid release this year, buy 'Fuck it', their recent and limited availability mix cd. It really showcases the best of what's out there garage-wise just now and doesn't have as much filler as the album.

I think you have to love So Solid. They just are a certain element of London culture - they show all the fascinations, hopes, fantasies and failings of a certain group of people who don't get a massive of representation culturally.

Yes they're arrogant, not too bright, obsessed with bling bling hip hop culture, violence and sex. But they are musicians and they come at music in a totally unique way, with a sense of what rhythms and words are about and how they can be used that is unlike almost anything else out there. Plus their stuff is fun.

And enough already with the jaw-breaking stuff. Yes, of course it was a shitty thing to do. But just about every goddam rock group since 1960 has abused groupies in various ways and this certainly doesn't make SSC worthy of being singled out for disapproval. What's more, Skatt D, the guy in question is a pretty peripheral SSC member - it's like not listening to the Stones because they were associated with the Hells Angels at Altamont...
 
 
No star here laces
07:17 / 04.02.02
quote:Originally posted by Dread Pirate Crunchy:
Do as many people hate them as they seem to think?


To use ILM terminology, hating the SSC is a very 'rockist' thing to do...
 
 
Jackie Susann
08:32 / 04.02.02
quote: If you buy one So Solid release this year, buy 'Fuck it', their recent and limited availability mix cd.

I was hunting for this this arvo - does anybody, Fool maybe, know where I can find it in Melbourne? And ILM? Industrial Lights and Magic?

I am listening to the single right now, and their wordplay is amazing - it's like the flipside of US gangsta drawl, DMX remixed by the Smurfs or something. After being pretty bored with my usual rap faves last year, this actually sounds exciting...

And finally, can anyone give me a real quick explanation of 'UK garage', since I know nothing about it?
 
 
The resistable rise of Reidcourchie
08:36 / 04.02.02
Originally posted by Lyra Lovelaces

"And enough already with the jaw-breaking stuff. Yes, of course it was a shitty thing to do. But just about every goddam rock group since 1960 has abused groupies in various ways and this certainly doesn't make SSC worthy of being singled out for disapproval. What's more, Skatt D, the guy in question is a pretty peripheral SSC member - it's like not listening to the Stones because they were associated with the Hells Angels at Altamont..."

I agree. SSC are getting into a lot of other shit at the moment, they're gigs a re being banned because of violence at their shows that has little to do with them. As for the jawbreaking thing, that sucks and both the person who did it and the guy who tried to justify it deserve something bad happening to them but should the other 28 members have to suffer for this?

As for their music I tend to love part of their songs and hate other parts. I am confused as to why all UK Hip Hop is currently being classified as garage, they sound pretty much common or garden hip hop to me so why are they garage? What's the differance?
 
 
Sauron
08:36 / 04.02.02
Lyra, do you work for The Face? Your blind love of So Solid is only matched by that rag.

I think they have talent and can rap, but I think the production and on occasion the rhymes are very very basic. Perhaps their music will grow, and I'd like to see them in the studio with the Rza or Timbaland to see if they can be stretched (I'm sure these boys could work out the nuance of UK garage in all of 2 seconds and bring it up a step), but at the moment I thiink they're child's play.
 
 
No star here laces
10:41 / 04.02.02
A short history of the word 'Garage'.

The name comes from infamous disco club, the Paradise Garage which was where the godfather of modern DJing, Larry Levan, played from (I think) '76 through until '87. 'Garage' as a music term was used to describe the kind of stuff they played there, as opposed to the kind of stuff that Frankie Knuckles played at the Warehouse in Chicago, which was known as 'House'.

Garage, the New York sound, tended to be more vocal, have a lighter sound and use more snare drums than the heavier Chicago sound. As house became established as a mainstream sound in the early 90s, garage came to mean any vocal house.

However, as the 90s rolled on and house became more dominated by the European sound, a more purist garage scene emerged which fetishised a more stripped down, raw, soulful sound. The minimal garage sound was very clattery-sounding and snare heavy, with self-consciously 'soul-y' vocals. This style, as made by producers such as Kerri Chandler and Angel Moraes became hugely influential on the underground scene and in its turn started to spawn subgenres.

At this stage (mid 90s) garage was very much a US scene in that all the noteworthy producers and singers were in the US. However, the style was very popular in the UK as a more soulful counterpoint to the increasingly frenetic and synthetic sounding house scene, particularly among a certain group of older, black London DJs such as Paul 'Trouble' Anderson and Bobbi & Steve.

UK producers, notably Grant Nelson and Tuff Jam productions started to put out garage records on labels like Azuli and 4 Liberty which had a UK take on the US garage sound. They were particularly influenced by Todd Edwards and his distinctive chopped up style (the MK remix of the Nightcrawlers' 'Push the feeling on' is a blatant rip-off of Edwards). These UK records were faster than the US ones, which were typically at a slow house pace which was too sedate for UK dancefloors. Nelson in particular started to really accentuate the snare sound.

Finally, around '97 or so the whole thing really kicked off when a few producers got the idea of cobbling the big distorted ragga basslines of 95-era jungle with the emerging UK garage sound. There was a sudden explosion of what people called the 'Sunday scene' of UK garage clubs. These were typically on a sunday because the rent was less...

The major change had been that instead of an older US garage crowd, the scene had started to appeal to young black londoners. They had drifted out of Drum and Bass because media interest had driven that scene towards a more distorted rock-type sound that didn't fit in with their sensibilities. With this shift in demographic, MCs started to enter the garage scene - providing a rhythmic flow of words over the top of the music. The british MC tradition comes from the ragga style of toasting and unlike hip hop the words aren't terribly important. Most jungle MCs are indecipherable, and their voices are used more like an instrument.

Garage broke big on the mainstream in '98 and by then was almost fully formed. The main elements were jittery snare beats, fast house tempo, big basslines, cut up squeaky vocals and horns and ragga-style mcs. Since then the main evolution has been to cut out the kickdrum from the beat altogether to give a breakbeat sound, and the emergence of charismatic mcs such as the SSC.

Garage and Hip hop are basically coming from completely different places. They might sound a bit similar, especially given the current predominance of breakbeat garage, but the aesthetics and purpose of the music are very different. That's why, to a hip hop listener, garage mcs are so repetitive.

Clear?

Sauron I neither read nor write for the Face, and I think you'll find that the majority of SSC fans don't either. I think it's unwise to compare SSC production to RZA or Timbaland - they are completely different styles. You also need to remember that garage is a club style - the records are recorded and mixed for club play and contain lots of sub-bass that you won't hear on the radio, and that is a major component of the music and one of the things that differentiates it from what RZA and Timbaland do.

I like garage because this is a musical tradition that I fully subscribe to. I understand that most people don't share this fascination and don't know or care about all of this backstory and evolution that I find fascinating. It is largely a matter of my coming from a personal musical background (as do a huge number of people in this country) of primarily liking and listening to black, club music. If you don't generally like this sort of music, of course you're going to hate garage. I think the reason it inspires such hatred among people from a white, rock background is because it is such a pure distillation of this tradition and its values are so opposite to those of modern rock.

You cannot evaluate garage on criteria of authenticity, meaningful lyrics or political responsibility. These are irrelevant. Garage is about rhythm, bass, sex and attitude and you can't comment on it until you've danced to it.

Final word - I end up defending SSC in particular here because they are probably the only part of this vast and diverse scene that are at all familiar to anyone on the board. I'm really speaking for all underground club music from a black tradition.

Phew.

[ 04-02-2002: Message edited by: Lyra Lovelaces ]
 
 
Ganesh
10:45 / 04.02.02
The Guardian called SSC "the UK's gayest band". But then, that's the Guardian for you.
 
 
Sauron
11:22 / 04.02.02
Lyra,

The Face comment was flippant and sarcastic- I thought you'd notice, apologies.

To clear something up- I do not like UK Garage, though I like Hip Hop and I adore deep US garage, so maybe my start point is slightly biased, but your 'black underground' music comment doesn't come into play here. However, as someone who used to promote clubnights in Manchester (Where Matt' Jam' Lamont AKA Peanut used to play when UK Garage was only a twinkle in his eye and he was playing the proper American stuff or British stuff on labels like Azuli, JBO)I am aware of the new fangled sub-base phenomenon (sarcasm again), and I am aware that Hip Hop producers skills differ from those of UK Garage producers. However, I think certain producers, Phil Spectre, George Martin, Andrew Oldham, Rza, Timbaland, Johnny Viscious, Paul Oakenfold (Pills Thrills and Bellyaches is a fantasically produced guitar based album)etc could probably turn their hand to anything and make it sound sweet- see Adam F. Thus the point is, I think So Solid could benefit from working with some masters. Perhaps their music wouldn't sound so fucking playground if they did.

[ 04-02-2002: Message edited by: Sauron ]
 
 
No star here laces
12:27 / 04.02.02
'pologies for being patronising and/or taking stuff too seriously.

Anyhow, Sauron, I am a massive fan of US garage - it's the reason I like UKG. I no longer buy any of either style, in the case of the US stuff because I can't abide the dominance of that whole lounge-y Naked music style, and in the case of UKG because the scene moves too fast.

I'd be the last person to say that SSC have good production - it's definitely on the shitty end of the scale. But as an iteration on UKG for the pop charts and for international consumption it does pretty well. If you've got more sophisticated tastes then the scene is definitely worth exploring - as I said, I don't buy the records and haven't since '99 or so, but listen to pirate radio and you'll pick stuff up. If you liked US garage I can't see how you could fail to love the way it's been twisted into a new shape by people who saw it in a completely different way.

SGR or whatever yer called today, I seriously doubt our backgrounds were that different, I was just referring to what I listened to while I was a suburban teenager. I guess the only difference might be all the time I spent in 'specialist' vinyl shops listening to men who were old enough to know better ranting on about how certain things weren't 'deep' or 'black' enough for them...

Except, of course, I'd take Promised Land over just about anything...
 
 
Sauron
12:39 / 04.02.02
Agree with you re: 'Promise Land' (if full of ecstacy). You are of course correct- I probably have not explored the scene enough, but my gut feel is thus- whereas US Garage at it's best flows beautifully, while drumbeats repeat dutifully, UKG seems stunted- I just can't find the SOUL in the music- it's rawer- but in a bad way- it has more in common with Ragga or Hip Hop than Chicago house music to me. This is why I'd like to see some tip top producers go to work on a UKG beat- perhaps from a house background- MAW would be interesting.
 
 
Spaniel
12:10 / 09.02.02
posted by sauron:

quote: whereas US Garage at it's best flows beautifully, while drumbeats repeat dutifully, UKG seems stunted- I just can't find the SOUL in the music

UK Garage is full of soul, it's the lick. The beats are tearing the sub bass is ruff in a total dancehall mash up stylee, there's soulfull licks laid down by peeps like Lisa Mafia & other talented vocalists. This shit's sweet & full of soul it's like Marvin Gaye meets Africa Bambatta in Hackey on pirate radio. Wicked!
 
 
the Fool
03:03 / 11.02.02
quote:Originally posted by Dread Pirate Crunchy:
I was hunting for this this arvo - does anybody, Fool maybe, know where I can find it in Melbourne? And ILM? Industrial Lights and Magic?


Rhythym & Soul, Greville St/as well as just off Bourke St Mall in one of those litte alleys... Or Soundboy records. If not they at least should be able to put you in the right direction.
 
 
Jackie Susann
08:00 / 12.02.02
I love you and will have your babies.
 
  
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