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Underground > Radio & Music >

the beat makers

12:31 / 11.01.02

Ok, a lot of chat recently about good MCs. But, to be honest, the thing that first grabbed me about hip hop was the beats. Preferably NYC stuff.

So, who's your favorite producers? Who's building tracks that you just can't stand still for?

No star here laces

12:59 / 11.01.02

J Rawls and Fat Jon are doing really nice, understated stuff. (J Rawls is the guy who did the 'Brown skin lady' beat, and all the Lone Catalysts stuff, Fat Jon in the producer from 5 Deez). The two of em are collaborating on something called 35582 or something like that, which is currently my most eagerly anticipated release of 2002.

Historically Large Pro and Pete Rock are my favourite producers, and between them have probably produced a goodly proportion of all the all-time classics that're out there. Lord Finesse has also been historically excellent - all really funky. Premo is overrated. He has made some superb beats, but overall I find him less impressive than the others, especially recently.

But those guys are all sample-based musicians. Hip hop is definitely moving out of the sample era and into the keyboard era, despite what the underground might like to think.

Of the keyboard producers, the Neptunes are obviously hotter than J Lo in a bath of chilli sauce just now, especially for that 'Bouncin back' beat, which I defy anyone to stand still to. But I feel their RnB production is usually better than the more hip hop stuff, so they don't really count.

I can't see Dre losing the plot anytime soon, and 'Forgot about Dre' was one of the definite classics from last year. His production is very good, but doesn't really excite me. I don't think Dre uses keyboards much, but he manages to sound more contemporary than most of the other sampler producers.

13:08 / 11.01.02

Shadow.

Shadow got me into hiphop, not the easiest way in, but then I got into all sorts of other stuff and felt like buying shares in Ninja Tune.

Whilst synthetic hiphop's moving on, the sampler will ALWAYS have a place in it, just because it's such a versatile instrument. But the days of ripping off huge swathes of basslines and loops are over. That's partly been taken onto a new level - see what pure samplists and other dance acts, eg the Avalanches have done - but also because of, well, Puff "Fucking Stupid" Daddy ripping off, oh, an entire Police number. And the like.

Money's got in the way. Pete Rock's OK, I find him a bit bland, and I find Dre as producer dull as hell. Effective, yeah, but dull. Timbaland is moving VERY far on, though, some great stuff coming from there recently.

And I really love Roots Manuva's production, seriously. Great blingy samples, and what drums! But that's just me.

Matthew Fluxington

13:25 / 11.01.02

Instead of saying who I like, I'm just going to mention that I really fucking hate Dr. Dre's production style since the mid-90s, and that Timbaland/Missy Elliot mostly just irritate me.

Good god, I hate Dr. Dre's post-Chronic work soooooooooo much. There's that one really great Eminem track, "Drug Ballad", but after that, it's all strictly bargain basement...

Matthew Fluxington

13:27 / 11.01.02

In defense of Puffy: I would like to remind everyone that he did the majority of the production on Ready To Die by The Notorious B.I.G., one of the finest hip hop records ever recorded.

And "It's All About The Benjamins" in all of its versions is a really fantastic track...

---
I would like to mention that even the weakest tracks that DJ Premier can make most anybody sound great....

[ 11-01-2002: Message edited by: Flux = Rad ]

Regrettable Juvenilia

13:40 / 11.01.02

I really love 'Victory' as well. There's nothing like putting that on and having people ask "who's this?".

"It's Puff Daddy."

"Oh..."

It seems obvious that Biggie was writing Puffy's rhymes for him at that stage, though. See also 'Mo Money, Mo Problems', another brilliant party/club track.

Flux, I seriously think you should check out some of the new Timbaland album. About half of it is completely fantastic. 'People Like Myself', 'Indian Carpet', 'Party People' (has Jay-Z on it), and especially 'All Y'All' - download these and I'll be a bit puzzled if you don't like at least a couple of them (it is all about the production). Or maybe I should just stick them on a tape...

Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!

13:48 / 11.01.02

I always liked Pete Rock. Well..er... T.R.O.Y. (is that the right track?) era Rock...

Regrettable Juvenilia

13:52 / 11.01.02

More recently: Soul Survivor. What an album. I love the way the production of different tracks fits the MCs guesting on them... 'Half Man Half Amazin' - that beat was just made for Method Man, and 'The Game' is perfect for Rae, Ghostface and Prodigy... Man, where the hell is my tape of that?

Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!

13:58 / 11.01.02

Oh yeah, I got that album. Prefer the old stuff. Those old Pete Rock and C.L. Smooth days. Sometimes you can't beat that combo. There are some shining moments on that album though, mostly on the type of tracks you mentioned.

[ 11-01-2002: Message edited by: Jonny Suede ]

No star here laces

14:26 / 11.01.02

quote:Originally posted by Flyboy:
'Half Man Half Amazin' - that beat was just made for Method Man

Another person, therefore, who could say to Nas "you wrote a hot line, I made it a hot song".

Not to get onto the mcs again, but Nas must be the most sampled mc around (unless it's Uncle L).

Paleface, I am absolutely fuckin staggered that you can think Pete Rock is bland, yet rate Shadow who is the blandest producer I can think of. His cod early-80s shtick is so dull and reminiscent of the worst aspects of big beat. Pete Rock made EPMD's 'Rampage', he did the most godlike remix job on 'Jump around' and of course wrote 'T.R.O.Y.' which might be an end-of-the-night staple but is still incredibly moving and emotive.

Matthew Fluxington

15:11 / 11.01.02

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Flyboy:
Flux, I seriously think you should check out some of the new Timbaland album.

I have a copy of Indecent Proposal. I bought a bootleg for $5 on the street out of curiosity when it came out... Most of it I don't think is very good, the best songs on it (People Like Myself, Drop, Party People, Indian Carpet, the tune with Beck and Aaliyah) are just kinda mediocre by my reckoning.

I know it's rather unfashionable to say this, but I really don't think Timbaland is anything special, and Magoo is a really fucking obnoxious MC.

15:32 / 11.01.02

I agree with Paleface on Shadow - he's stunning. The boy knows how to program drums, which is what far too few producers seem to devote any time to. A lot of Shadow stuff will make me feel compelled to get on the dance floor. He's also got a staggering range, and isn't afraid to make stuff which isn't hip hop by anyone's definition. He's got an uncany knack for building and maintaining a vibe that is streets ahead of most of the competition.

When he decides to go out and out hip hop he just makes me smile and shake my ass.

15:52 / 11.01.02

See what e-less wrote above. THAT's why. He plays around with rhythmn and his samples far more than many other prods dare - once they've got the loop they stick to it.

I mean, I found most of Petestrumentals pretty dull. Not because they were 'just' instrumentals, I mean, I got that... but purely because he'd find a groove, lock into it, and that was that. No experimentation, just leave it to the vocalists. Which isn't very exciting to my mind.

Matthew Fluxington

16:00 / 11.01.02

Now, that said... who here has heard the new DJ Shadow/Cut Chemist LP?

Is it worth the import price, or should I go with Audiogalaxy on this one?

16:28 / 11.01.02

I haven't heard either of them, but I'd like to.

Who here has heard Q-Bert's Wavetwisters? Thoroughly recommended, really good fun and a lot of amazing ideas. I've heard the film is good, too.

e-less? Anyone got J-Lo's number?

16:28 / 11.01.02

Anybody here pick up the Tony Touch disk? He's a DJ out of NY. Pretty much everyone's on the disk. Wu Tang, Flip Mode Squad, Gangstarr, and a ton of other people I can't think of now. Great beats on it to. At least in my humble opinion.

No star here laces

06:49 / 12.01.02

quote:Originally posted by Paleface:
I mean, I found most of Petestrumentals pretty dull. Not because they were 'just' instrumentals, I mean, I got that... but purely because he'd find a groove, lock into it, and that was that. No experimentation, just leave it to the vocalists.

I dunno. Think there's a lot to be said for this approach. I probably prefer tracks where the production doesn't impose itself too much over the vocals. I think that's the problem timbaland has with mcs - his beats move around too much and are too attention-grabbing for mcs to impose their personality on the track properly. If you think about the tracks that are undisputed lyrical classics, most of 'em have a pretty basic beat.

Similarly to me, it needs to be remembered that hip hop is not like disco-based dance music. The tracks are songs, not ten minute odysseys, and I like a simple groove to lock into while dancing so that I can get off on the lyrics. If it was an instrumental, longer artform, i.e. like big beat, then yes shadow style production would work. Just a thought, anyhows...

10:35 / 12.01.02

I've heard some amazing MC performances on off kilter beats. I wish more hip hop was like this. I've done some loops for producer friends that were in 5/4 and 7/4 - hip hop really needs to break out of four at some point. The beats can still retain the hip hop feel without being so dull all the time (I've played them, so I know). More variety, please!

No star here laces

10:51 / 12.01.02

Going into other time signatures is all very well for listening music, but no fucker is going to dance to it. I know this cos I've tried playing records in 6/8 or 3/4 (which aren't nearly as challenging as 5/4 or 7/4 to groove to) and cleared the dancefloor. And those were disco/latin based tunes - hate to think how a hip hop crowd would respond.

13:14 / 12.01.02

I guess you're right: I'd prolly be alone in finding it danceable. Still, there'd be a hell of a lot of possibilities for tunes and variations on MC delivery.

19:37 / 12.01.02

6/8 is highly dancable, because it's basically in 2. You've just got to cover it up well enough.