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So now you're closing my posts?

  
 
Rage
22:33 / 11.03.02
quote:Barbelith is a bit like a rich neighborhood

Indeed. But I once thought we all were window breakers.

quote:we're very happy with the way it is because it's pretty quiet, it's somewhat homogenous in that most everyone shares the same basic values, and we'd all like to keep the riff-raff out, thank you.

I thought one of our shared basic values was freedom of speech. Yes, even if the word "fag" is uttered. ::shrug::

quote:If you had a respect for what you think Barbelith "stands for", then you would not have ever done that silly little Bop prank.

Oh, come on. It was just that. A silly little prank. Silly little pranks not disrespetful to what this place ""stands for"". Not only this, but they are a favorite pastime of many of us.

quote: If you'd read the foully offensive e-mail/pm that I received after pausing the illfigure account, an e-mail which hadn't even waited to hear why I had felt compelled to temporarily suspend it - the e-mail/pm being extremely aggressive, unpleasant and insulting to me personally - then you'd probably have made the same judgment that I did.

I didn't even know the email existed. Many if you showed me the email my view on this situation would be quite different, though I doubt it would convince me that the deletion of the Bop account was reasonable.

quote:This is not a particularly sensitively written reply and I wish I could approach this with rather more equanimity, but frankly who the hell do you think you are demanding an explanation from me? You haven't kept this fucking place ruinning for the last three years - you haven't had to deal with this kind of situation every few months since the site opened.

Who the hell do I think I am? Woah, hostile. How about a girl who's been posting here for a while that is shocked when something like this happens.

quote:So until I get paid a salary for keeping this place open, when perhaps you will have some right to protest about the level of 'service' you are getting, I would ask you to have the good bloody graces to treat me with the respect that I think I deserve and ask sensible, unmelodramatic, intelligent questions and be prepared to be admit when you might be wrong.

Did you really just say "perhaps you will have some right to protest"? Wow. That's all I can say. "Wow." The irony is killllling me.
 
 
Rage
22:37 / 11.03.02
quote:I have got rather stroppy above, because I'm irritated with people demanding explanations for my behaviour - when they could just ask.

That's what I did. Asked. And then you closed the post. I tried PMing you but you didn't respond, so what else was I to do?

And then you closed the post. Close this one too. Better yet, delete my account along with Bop's. I'm out.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
22:53 / 11.03.02
Rage- Whoa, whoa, whoa! I know you're only sticking up for your freind, but ungallop a bit, eh?

First off: Yes, your thread is being closed. It's one thread. I know it smarts but it's not the end of the world.

Second off: Illfigure's account wasn't shut down because of hir posts. It was suspended. It only got wiped because ze went off a bit half-cocked and decided to send hatemail to the moderator- who's already smarting from similar correspondance from Knodge's various imaginary freinds.

Now, I didn't really get to know Illfigure, so I can't comment on hir as a person. However, hir posts did seem to be designed to provoke anger rather than discussion.

Also, in the thread above, you seem to be conflating the opinions of one poster with the opinions of the administrator, which isn't really accurate unless you reckon the board is a big ol' monolithic Quatermass Experiment-style brain mass.

Can we all take a step back and then try and find some sort of common ground?
 
 
SMS
02:19 / 12.03.02
Rage, I read the thread that has been locked. I haven't read any of illfigure's posts. But I'll say that I could easily have started your thread, and I think I understand how you feel. Tom's reply seems to be somewhat tough on you, but the whole board is pretty edgy when it comes to these types of discussions. When you typed a request, some heard a demand. And we did get a reasonable explanation, I think. So all that's left to do now is throw punches. That's why closing your thread was a good thing.

I'm often pretty good at killing a discussion. Usually, though, it's when I don't want to do it.
 
 
levon
04:06 / 12.03.02
u suck, rage.
 
 
Ganesh
04:06 / 12.03.02
Not helpful, Levon.

I agree that we're possibly all a little prone to edginess at the moment. Let's really try, collectively, not to let this one develop into a shitstorm, eh?
 
 
Our Lady of The Two Towers
10:46 / 12.03.02
Do you know, I found out this morning that Voltaire didn't actually say the phrase attributed to him; "I don't believe with what you say but I will fight to the death for your right to say it". And at the moment I see no valid reason for free speech to be the automatic choice here, especially when Rage says;
quote:
I thought one of our shared basic values was freedom of speech. Yes, even if the word "fag" is uttered.

I mean, what a silly bitch.
 
 
Tom Coates
11:14 / 12.03.02
quote: Who the hell do I think I am? Woah, hostile. How about a girl who's been posting here for a while that is shocked when something like this. Did you really just say "perhaps you will have some right to protest"? Wow. That's all I can say. "Wow." The irony is killllling me. happens.

Actually I said that you should treat me with the respect that you would anyone else on the board, that you had no right to protest 'ABOUT THE LEVEL OF SERVICE YOU WERE GETTING' and that you have no right to demand ANYTHING of me when if you asked nicely and politely you would almost certainly get a similar reply...

And I repeat - if you want to storm off in a huff, then please feel free. I've got too much on my mind at the moment to spend my life dealing with every little complaint you may have...
 
 
Tom Coates
11:20 / 12.03.02
quote: Tom's reply seems to be somewhat tough on you, but the whole board is pretty edgy when it comes to these types of discussions.

This is probably the truest thing spoken recently. I'm sorry if I've over-reacted to your comments, but the whole board has been in danger of falling over into bickering and in-fighting recently. A couple of difficult decisions have had to be made and they have been made Rehashing them, recapitulating them, acting in the same way as the person who caused those difficult decisions to become necessary... None of these things are useful...
 
 
Haus about we all give each other a big lovely huggle?
11:24 / 12.03.02
Not, of course, to mention that, after a general agreement to limit new entrants to Barbelith, Rage decided that letting her little friend out to play was sufficiently important to subvert the spirit of that agreement.

No offence, Rage, but according to the process we had agreed on, "illfigure" should not even have been here until the board was reopened. Much less turned up and posted nothing but abusive, self-absorbed and very dull claptrap.
 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
11:50 / 12.03.02
Rage, if you actually stormed off every time you storm off, there'd be rain wherever it is you live all the damn time.

You're great. You're angry, you're in everyone's face, you're actually a pretty talented writer, near as I can tell. But you seem to imagine that you're right at the centre of things, and today you're a side issue.

Now get down offa the horse so's we can cook the fucker, and get out of Tom's face. He's a reasonable, intelligent, gentlemanly bloke who is among the first to deny his own good qualities. His one-handed juggling act with Barbelith is formidable.

You want to yell at someone, yell at me. I'm constantly advocating restrictive, inegalitarian, paternalist, totalitarian measures to protect my version of what should be going on here, and Tom is generally the one agonising about whether it's ethical to eject some emotional defective with today's exciting pseudorevolutionary attitude.

I swear, he should just provide Barbelith 'as is', and have a pseudonym for actually posting on the board.

Near as I can tell, illfigure was potentially interesting, but brash and shouty, and hir timing was off. S/He got suspended and then threw a total wobbly and got ejected.

Well, shit. It's in the FAQ: start small, use your brain, don't come in like Wild Bill if you want Barbelith to pay attention.
 
 
pointless and uncalled for
12:09 / 12.03.02


[ 12-03-2002: Message edited by: H ]
 
 
Ganesh
20:58 / 12.03.02
quote:Originally posted by Nick:
His one-handed juggling act with Barbelith is formidable.

That'll explain the used Kleenex.
 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
09:59 / 13.03.02
Ew.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
09:59 / 13.03.02
And so say all of us.
 
 
Tom Coates
09:59 / 13.03.02
Rage - if you're still around, I hope you recognise that having people thrown off the board break into other people's accounts and use them to support their own case is completely innappropriate behaviour and that this must provide evidence that we were right to expell them in the first place?
 
 
Iao Adonai
12:38 / 13.03.02
Wow. Off for a walk I go and I come back to find the board in fisticuffs. Rage, as one who had been 'round the block a few times in the previous incarnations of these forums, I must communicate to you that Tom does an excellent service out of the sheer "fun" of it. It's his house that he's invited us all to party at. House parties are run by house rules, which are made up by the host. They are all unique, and they all have a basis in previous house party experience.

Now, if the host asks that you keep your voice down a notch or use more caution in some areas of your socializing while on his premises, it's a matter of courtesy to act in accord with your host's wishes. If you do not agree with or like what the host asks you to do, there is always the option to leave.

Again, it's Tom's house. If you want to stay, you'll need to acquiesce to the host. You can always take the time and resources, however, to go start your own house party.

Cheers.

IAO

[ 13-03-2002: Message edited by: Iao Adonai ]
 
 
levon
17:59 / 13.03.02
How patronizing. I still think rage sucks. If Rage feels creatively stagnated in this "Cyberspatial location" then Rage should be told to fuck off for the sake of Rage's own health. What's this "I've been around the block a few times" shit? There ain't no need to be frontin'. Y'all think you all that but you ain't all that.

TRUTH. Art is truth my friends. As artists we must always STRIVE towards the truth. Oh yeah, and another thing. The board's purpose has changed. Clinging to this revolution angle won't keep you young, so why must we have to constantly defend ourselves? Instead of wanting to teach the world the meaning of freedom, maybe we all just want to love and be loved?

Sorry about this.
 
 
Sauron
18:15 / 13.03.02
[twopeneth] Tom ain't God, and even God has made mistakes. (If he exists, but think that could deserve a thread of its own)

For fuckssake- he's not our dad- people should think before blowing up at him, or one day you may click onto Barbelith and all there will be is an empty white space. [/twopeneth]

[ 13-03-2002: Message edited by: Sauron ]
 
 
Iao Adonai
19:41 / 13.03.02
Sorry 'bout living?

What's that?
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
20:32 / 13.03.02
Okay: I'm not comfortable with the whole "hey, let's all have a go at Rage" thing, since a) she may very well be unaware of the full story behind Illfigure's summary ejection from the board and b) we've all got in a strop and lashed out at the wrong person at least once in our lives. So this post is not directed Ragewards, it's more of a generalized, one-size-fits-all rant. It's only on this thread because it didn't really seem to belong anywhere else.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: The 'lith is not the telly. You are not in a sit-back-and-munch popcorn role here. You are the action.

Also, until any of us is rich enough to pay Tom Coates a salary, he is not our personal board monkey. The place is free for the love of Mike! You get to make complaints, you get to make criticsms, you get to push the boundaries, yeah, but you don't get to make fucking demands.

If you are sad enough to follow the board's comings and goings as closely as I do (what can I say- I'm a student who's too old for soap operas and gets up too late for cartoons) you will have noticed that he puts up with a fuck of a lot of stuff that would get you shitcanned in very short order anywhere else. The board admin here is very hands-off. If I was running this board then you babies'd know allll about authoritarian.

Iao's party analogy is a solid one. It makes me sick, frankly, to see what some people will do to the carpets in TC's gaff.


PS- Just to put my money where my mouth is: You want somewhere to yell, rant or flame? You want to sling around random accusations of censorship or general bossiness? Fine. Come to my board and we can all bitchslap each other till the break of dawn. Otherwise stop bloody whining and get on with it.

[edited due to burgeoning paranoia. If you want to use my board then PM me.]

[ 14-03-2002: Message edited by: Mordant C@rnival ]
 
  
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