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Underground > Radio & Music >

blatant plagiarism

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14:09 / 28.11.01

I hate to do this, because I like the Super Furry Animals, and it's otherwise quite a nice song but .. I heard 'Not the End of the World' on the radio last night and..

..Waterloo Sunset anyone?

It really is shameless - for the first minute or so I thought it was a cover version and wondered why they'd changed the words.

And, er, to give this thread a purpose, any other acts of musical plagiarism that really should be made known to the public?

(Oasis don't count, cos it's kind of funny when they do it)

for instance,

'Swap Meet' by Nirvana is a rip-off of 'The Model' by Kraftwerk.

'Dry the Rain' by The Beta Band is a rip off of 'Loaded' by Primal Scream.

The entire Placebo back catalogue is a rip off of 'Schizophrenia' by Sonic Yotuh.

You get the idea.

[ 28-11-2001: Message edited by: Rizla Year Zero ]

14:18 / 28.11.01

Well, the last-but-one U2 single criminally ripped off A-Ha's 'The Sun Always Shines On TV'...

16:44 / 28.11.01

Have to disagree with you re the Super Furries/Kinks interface (and they're two of my favourite songs at the moment)

As for plagiarism; both Wire and the Stranglers made noises about suing Elastica, didn't they? I think Wire did, though I dunno about the Stranglers...

But where does 'influence' end and 'plagiarism' begin? When does a homage become a rip-off? Does it?

Methinks we have been here before, but in a different forum...

20:04 / 28.11.01

That new dandy warhols song - Brown Sugar.

Ronald Thomas Clontle

20:14 / 28.11.01

quote:Originally posted by Ganesh v4.2:
Well, the last-but-one U2 single criminally ripped off A-Ha's 'The Sun Always Shines On TV'...

Not knowing that Ah-Ha song, do you mean "Elevation" or "Stuck In A Moment You Can't Get Out Of"?

I like it when bands blatantly rip off parts of other people's songs. I think it is very much in the spirit of rock n roll/pop/hip hop/avant garde.

you know that old thing, it goes something like 'all brilliant artists and musicians are thieves' is on the right track. it's all about stealing from good sources... think about "The Second Line" by Clinic...I read a great review that said it sounds like a bunch of guys trying to play "Cavern" by Liquid Liquid but not remembering how it went... and that's exactly what it sounds like, and it is absolutely brilliant. And then they go and swipe entire lines from a Velvet Underground as the opening verse of "Distortions".... I love that stuff. and Pavement knicking the guitar line from "New Face In Hell" and "The Classical" and the drum beat of "Hip Priest" for "Conduit For Sale!" and "Jackals, False Grails: The Lonesome Era" and "Our Singer" off of Slanted and Enchanted... brilliance yielding yet even greater genius, if you ask me.

I don't see why when people with guitars sample and interpolate it's suddenly a bad thing, but DJ / electronic folks, everyone turns and looks the other way... such a cruel double standard, and completely ignorant of the roots of the rock genre, a genre based on cross polination and blatant plagiarism...

The Return Of Rothkoid

20:22 / 28.11.01

Flux: Ganesh means "Beautiful Day"...

Ronald Thomas Clontle

20:31 / 28.11.01

oh. well that's a pretty old single by now, that's what confused me.

in related news: every time I hear the chorus of "Stuck In A Moment" I half expect to hear Bono sing "you've lost that loving feeling, oooooo-whoooah, that's loving feeling..."

Red Cross Iodized Salt

00:03 / 29.11.01

Pavement did quite a bit of it in the early days. Conduit For Sale is a total rip-off of a Fall song (the name of which is maddeningly escaping me) and Debris Slide = Debaser.

Ronald Thomas Clontle

00:09 / 29.11.01

quote:Originally posted by Vote for Iron Man Wang:
Pavement did quite a bit of it in the early days. Conduit For Sale is a total rip-off of a Fall song (the name of which is maddeningly escaping me) and Debris Slide = Debaser.

Um, I already listed which Fall song "Conduit" was lifted from - "New Face In Hell". It should be noted that The Fall are no strangers to knicking bits of other folks songs too, as much as Mark E. Smith protests about bands ripping off The Fall... a good example is The Fall's tribute to Can, "I Am Damo Suzuki" which interpolates the vocal melody of "Halleluwah" off of the Tago Mago LP...

I've heard both Debris Slide and Debaser many many many many many many MANY times in my life, and I don't see any notable similarity between those two songs - save for maybe the fact that in Debaser there is a line that goes "slicing up eyeballs" and Debris Slide has a line that goes "eyes in the socket, eyes in the socket, so I'm gonna sock it". Also, the fact that they were recorded and released in the same year (1989) makes it very difficult for it to be a rip...

[ 29-11-2001: Message edited by: Flux = The Classical ]

06:44 / 29.11.01

<thread rot>

'Slicing up eyeballs'?

So it's not 'sizing up bibles', then?

07:06 / 29.11.01

No, it's a reference to the surrealist film 'Un Chien Andalou' by Dali and Bunuel, the most famous scene of which is the slicing of an eyeball.

</thread rot>

12:57 / 29.11.01

<rotting my own thread>

cool and weird as the Un Chien Andalou reference is, I love the idea of Frank Black singing "SIZING UP BIBLES, BWA-HA-HA-HA!!!"
The implications..

</rotting my own thread>

ok, how about;

'The Imperial March' from Star Wars and 'A Spoon Full of Sugar' from Mary Poppins.. du dudu-dudu dudduda dud-da dud-da..

13:01 / 29.11.01

quote:Originally posted by Not Me Again:

As for plagiarism; both Wire and the Stranglers made noises about suing Elastica, didn't they? I think Wire did, though I dunno about the Stranglers...

oh boy .. yeah. I was shocked to discover the insane extent to which Elastica ripped off Wire - practically every song on their first album can be traced back to a bit of Pink Flag..

..but who cares. Wire are brilliant - more bands should rip them off!

Ronald Thomas Clontle

13:08 / 29.11.01

Not just their first album either... "Human" off of The Menace is basically "Lowdown" and "Nothing Stays The Same" is "Kidney Bingos"... Also, it's not just Pink Flag...they were knicking bits off of Chairs Missing (one of the finest LPs of all time, btw) and 154. For example, "Line Up" is a remodeled version of "I Am The Fly"...

but I love Elastica. I think they made some really great songs out of outstanding source material in a very hip hop way of interpolating riffs and hooks and turning them into entirely new and distinct songs...

[ 29-11-2001: Message edited by: Flux = The Classical ]

The resistable rise of Reidcourchie

13:16 / 29.11.01

I think this is a sign of age because this is really getting to me at the moment.

I'm turning on the TV or the radio and hearing what souns like direct rip offs (no reinterpretation or anything like that just the sound nicked) of Dylan, the Ramones, various MOD bands, and Wolfsbane for Christ's sakes (that's Andred WK or whatever his name is). Of course I'm slightly shpooting myself in the foot by not being able to remember the names of any of the bands doing this at the moment. It's not fusion, there's no new ideas, is it supposed to be ironic?

Don't get me wrong I've no problem with sampling or taking old ideas and reworking them but there is nothing new going on with these bands whatsoever.

If it is my age and I am just becoming jaded then how am I ever going to have the chance to say to my children "Turn that shit down!" if it sounds like the same shit I listened to and my father did as well?

I'm stopping watching TV when an Eagles copy band comes out.

Regrettable Juvenilia

13:19 / 29.11.01

Most shameless plagiarists: Texas. 'Saw What You Want' takes a bit from the chorus of 'Sexual Healing', a bit from the chorus of Martika's 'Love, Thy Will Be Done' (written by Prince), sticks 'em together and voila. Samw words and everything. Not satisfied, another of their singles has the same exact tune as TLC's 'Creep'.

But as others have said, it's okay when *good* bands do it...

14:50 / 29.11.01

Green Day's recent single (don't know the name) is a crunchy version of Petula Clark's "Downtown." He even sings the words "Down...town" in about the right place, I think.

My friend Harry did something similar to this intentionally, when I told him the verse part to this song he just wrote sounded like the New Order song, "Leave Me Alone" - so for the chorus, which sounded completely different, like something off Sonic Youth or something, he used words from the New Order song. "We live always underground. It's gonna be so quiet in here tonight."

The song is called "Swooper"
description:
quote:It's a song sung from the point of view of an alien microbe marooned on an asteroid which crashes into the planet earth.

14:50 / 29.11.01

[popping head round door]

Flux:
"It should be noted that The Fall are no strangers to knicking bits of other folks songs too, as much as Mark E. Smith
protests about bands ripping off The Fall... "

Ha ha, correct. Always nicking riffs wholesale but buggering about sufficiently with (and around) them to make something different. The ones I can remember:

Papal Visit = Blue Bag (Can)
Elves = Wanna be Yr Dog (Stooges)
Barmy = Valerie (Monkees)
Gut of the Quantifier = some James Brown song, apparently
Athlete Cured = Tonight We're Gonna Rock You (Spinal Tap!!!)

Now what was the Bon Jovi song that Robbie Williams ripped off for
Let Me Entertain You?

[ 29-11-2001: Message edited by: Saveloy ]

19:24 / 29.11.01

quote:Originally posted by The Redcap's futility.:
various MOD bands

I'm sorry, but do you mean mod, as in those people that dress up in suits and get beat up by rockers or M.O.D. as in the band Billy Milano (of S.O.D. fame)sang for?

Sorry....
"Stray Cat Strut" by the Stray Cats is a complete and utter rip off of the song "Blank Generation" by Richard Hell and the Vodoids, right down to the "oohhh"'s. It may be a common chord progression, but it's the "oohhh"'s that seal the deal.

19:32 / 29.11.01

Shit! Sav!

(Makes a mad grab for Saveloy and tries to keep him in the room. Saveloy's head comes off in his hands. Much guilt, until he realises it's made out of straw and old sack, and then gets The Fear as he observes himself in the third person)

Red Cross Iodized Salt

22:49 / 29.11.01

quote:Um, I already listed which Fall song "Conduit" was lifted from - "New Face In Hell".
My bad - late night drunken posting - I didn't read the entire thread thoroughly enough. New Face In Hell was indeed the song.

quote:I've heard both Debris Slide and Debaser many many many many many many MANY times in my life, and I don't see any notable similarity between those two songs

The guitar riff during the chorus of Debris Slide is, note-for-note, the main riff from Debaser. Also, are you certain about the release date? I'm pretty sure Perfect Sound Forever came out in 1991 or thereabouts.

[ 30-11-2001: Message edited by: Vote for Iron Man Wang ]

Ronald Thomas Clontle

00:02 / 30.11.01

7?? 8h|riginally posted by Vote for Iron Man Wang:
Also, are you certain about the release date? I'm pretty sure Perfect Sound Forever came out in 1991 or thereabouts.
][/QUOTE]

I did some fact checking earlier, and apparently Perfect Sound Forever was recorded in late 89 and released in spring 1990. Pavement's releases in 1991 were "Summer Babe" a few compilation tracks, and of course, Slanted And Enchanted. It's too close in time chronologically, and the songs are too different on a surface level...lots of songs have similar riffs and chords. the two songs in question don't sound similar enough, I say -- the playing style and guitar sounds aren't even similar.

[ 30-11-2001: Message edited by: Flux = Yr Fact-Checking Cuz ]

The resistable rise of Reidcourchie

06:41 / 30.11.01

Originally posted by Cop Killer

"I'm sorry, but do you mean mod, as in those people that dress up in suits and get beat up by rockers or M.O.D. as in the band Billy Milano (of S.O.D. fame)sang for?"

I meant beat up by rockers, there'd be a lot more of the trendy types on Barbelith whining if it was M.O.D (Means of Destruction?) rip off bands.

A

23:49 / 02.12.01

If you want a real "Debaser" ripoff, there's Sugar's "A Good Idea". But seeing as how there probably wouldn't have been a Pixies without Husker Du, Bob is probably justified in nicking their riff. Maybe.

Also, "Bloodclot" by Rancid is almost a note-for-note take on "Can't Explain" by The Who.

And of course, that awful "Get A Job" (or whatever it was called) song by the Offspring was a bald-faced rip-off of "Ob La Di Ob La Da" by the Beatles.

Actually that "Come Out and Play" song is a rip-off of some song by Agent Orange, too. (Can't remember what it's called, but i heard them both played on the radio to demonstrate the fact once.)

Ronald Thomas Clontle

23:54 / 02.12.01

The melody of the verses ofSublime's obnoxious "What I Got" song is lifted from "Lady Madonna" by the Beatles.

The verses of Pearl Jam's "Given To Fly" is lifted from Led Zepellin's "Going To California".

Isn't it a lot smarter to knick bits of songs most people don't know? It seems weird to go after the biggest names in music..

A

01:09 / 03.12.01

I used to listen to a garage/psychedelic type radio show that often played this old song which the Dead Kennedys had clearly lifted the main riff from for "Let's Lynch The Landlord". Can't remember the name of the song, or the band, though.

Also, there was that really annoying song that was a hit a few years back, i think it was by Third Eye Blind. it featured the lyrics "doo doo doo doo doo doo doo etc", sung over the riff from "Ziggy Stardust" by David Bowie.

01:42 / 03.12.01

The verse riff to Nirvana's "Come As You Are" hews pretty closely to the opening of Killing Joke's "Eighties."

Regrettable Juvenilia

07:34 / 03.12.01

quote:Originally posted by Saveloy:
Now what was the Bon Jovi song that Robbie Williams ripped off for
Let Me Entertain You?]

'Keep The Faith'. Although I hadn't noticed that until you pointed it out. Nice one.

07:43 / 03.12.01

Pulp's 'Razzmatazz' has a fairly obvious lift from 'Round and Round' by New Order (on 'Technique'); and obviously, 'She's a Lady' is quite heavily derivative of 'I Will Survive'. Not that I care, because after all it is Jarvis.

Regrettable Juvenilia

07:50 / 03.12.01

Indeed. And everybody knows about the 'A Little Soul'/'Tracks Of My Tears' thing, but I'm not sure it counts as plagiarism when it's that deliberate... it's more like sampling... See also: 'Going To Town' by the Afghan Whigs and its relationship to Stevie Wonder's 'Superstition'.

A

08:53 / 04.12.01

Pulp's "Disco 2000" is a rip-off of not one song, but two- Laura Branigan's "Gloria" and the Stone Roses' "Sugar Spun Sister".

08:59 / 04.12.01

robbie williams has been taken to court for nicking lyrics, from hank wangford, i think.

one of his songs has totally stolen bits from 'i will survive'.

but i think elastica get the top spot for ripping other tunes off. saying that, i still love their first album. not sure they should get any royalties from it tho!

Regrettable Juvenilia

08:59 / 04.12.01

Thing about Elastica and Wire is that 'Line Up' is a much, *much* better song than 'I Am The Fly'. And smelly old bores like Wire could never have written 'Stutter'. So there!

13:08 / 04.12.01

b-but Wire are the OPPOSITE of smelly old bores .. their music is so NOT smelly, old or boring.. it's brill.

though I admit, 'I am the Fly' seems an odd choice for their 'famous' song, as it isn't all that good..

And Elastica were brill too. On occasion.

Matthew Fluxington

23:19 / 04.12.01

wait! wait! "I Am The Fly" is one of my favorite songs ever! yr wrong, yr all wrong about it! ah! ah!

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