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20th century avant composers

  
  

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17:25 / 05.10.01
Anybody into any interesting modern day composers? I've only heard the most accessible names like Phillip Glass, Gavin Bryars, John Tavener, and I like!

I'll bet the neoclassical (I'm not sure if I made up that word or not) vein runs a little deeper though... any suggestions?

[ 17-02-2002: Message edited by: Flux = Rad ]
 
 
Warrington Minge
18:40 / 05.10.01
Steve Reich would probably fit into what you are after. The word minimalism is always bandied about where Philip Glass and Gavin Bryars are concerned. Try Brian and Roger Eno also.
 
 
Ronald Thomas Clontle
20:44 / 05.10.01
I would recommend trying out Terry Riley. Riley's early work in particular, In C and A Rainbow In Curved Air. You can hear a lot of his influence in subsequent works by Neu!, Kraftwerk, Stereolab, Autechre, etc. His work is early electronic minimalism, and he comes from a very hippy/new age take on minimalist composition. I really love "A Rainbow In Curved Air" in particular, it's one of my favorite pieces of instrumental music.

I'm also very fond of Steve Reich, who pioneered tape loops and minimalist electronic music...I highly recommend trying 'It's Gonna Rain', 'Four Organs', and 'Music For 18 Musicians'. '...18 Musicians' is a piece which begins and ends with pulses of eleven chords that form the structure of the whole piece, then the middle section, the chords are played repeatedly in a rhythm formed by the breaths of the musicians, the pulse of pianos, and mallot instruments. A lot of his work is based on moving sound in and out of phase...

Others I'd recommend would be:

John Cage -- I'm personally not that much into Cage's actual music as much as I really like reading his books...Cage was a bit of a super-Zen musical prankster dandy. He's fantastic. I like a lot of his piano compositions...I can't think of a particular recording to go after (there was a rather well-put together box set that came out a few years ago if you want to make that sort of commitment...), but there are several volumes of his electronic and piano compositions out there. Cage was very concerned with bringing in elements of chance and randomness into his compositions...a great deal of his music isn't particularly easy to listen to as a result. It's more about theory, process and performance than listenability.

Berg and Schoernberg may be a little less than contemporary, but are good people to be familiar with to understand the composers of the 20th century...

If you have an interest in Fluxus art, a love for drones, and maybe a bit of a masochistic streak, LaMonte Young may be up your alley. Honestly, I really dislike Young, so don't take this as me suggesting you run out and buy one of his recordings so much as me saying "read about him, and maybe try to borrow something from the public library".

Stockhausen is also a big name, one to check out...he's also into tape loops and cut up, but plays more with pitch and duration than a guy like Reich, who I think is more accessable... Stockhausen was a student of Cage (he used a lot of the chance compositional methods that Cage advocated), and in turn, Can were students of Stockhausen..

[ 05-10-2001: Message edited by: Flux = Rad ]
 
 
Ronald Thomas Clontle
22:05 / 05.10.01
Also of interest may be the Kronos Quartet, who interpret a great many 20th century composers into chamber arrangements.

If you really want to dive off the deep end of weird 20th century composers, you may want to look into Harry Partch, who was virtually unknown in his lifetime, was a mentally unstable gay hobo with severe egomania issues, and rejected western harmonic scales in favor of a modified version of the eastern scale. He also composed music almost exclusively for massive wooden instruments of his own design. There's a state university out in California who have a complete set of Partch instruments, and they are the only people in the world who can truly perform his music, though some people have adapted his arrangements to more orthodox instrumentation (like, for example, the Kronos Quartet...)
 
 
that
22:05 / 05.10.01
This probably isn't exactly what you're after, but I'd highly recommend 'Officium' by Jan Garbarek and the Hilliard Ensemble. It is a marriage of saxophone and Gregorian chant, and is very beautiful...
 
 
Jack Fear
14:08 / 06.10.01
The works of Arvo Pärt, especially the "Miserere." For orchestra and voice, deeply consonant (like Riley's "In C") but somehow otherworldly.

Second Steve Reich, particularly "Drumming" and "Different Trains."

Assuming you've heard Gorecki's 3rd Symphony? Terribly powerful, no matter how familiar it becomes.

John Adams' stuff is full of motion and life: lots of work in the operatic form. His website: http://www.earbox.com/
 
 
grant
23:12 / 06.10.01
Don't forget your Moondog.

Musically: a bridge between John Coltrane and Philip Glass, maybe.

Invented a lot of modes we take for granted.

Plus, he looked like Gandalf before there were such things as hippies. Performed on the streets of New York from the 40s into the 70s. Went on a couple European tours - not as a busker, but filling concert halls.
Check him out.
 
 
Mystery Gypt
06:22 / 07.10.01
Iannis Xenakis will break your mind apart.

for reich, i'd reccomend "It's gonna Rain" available on the cd 4 early works -- it's a cutup of a harlem streetcorner minister preaching apocalypse, in 2 movements, it's the most amazing thing.

morton subatnik got a hold of those tremendous room-sized electronic instruments in the 50s/60s and did some wonderful, terrible things.

and Alvin Lucier did a tape piece called I am Sitting In a Room that is so surprsingly good, if i explained what it was it wouldnt do it justice.
 
 
Seth
13:00 / 07.10.01
I love the sound of this stuff. I'd love to hear it, but my new music budget is severely stretched.

If anyone's up for helping me out with a tape/mini-disc or two I'll return the favour.
 
 
Ronald Thomas Clontle
13:02 / 07.10.01
quote:Originally posted by expressionless:
I love the sound of this stuff. I'd love to hear it, but my new music budget is severely stretched.

If anyone's up for helping me out with a tape/mini-disc or two I'll return the favour.


You know, I really wish you had mentioned this before I sent your Fugazi cd in the mail yesterday.
 
 
The Return Of Rothkoid
17:54 / 07.10.01
Expressionless: mail me, re: discussions.

If you're keen to hear a bit of Cage, I'd heartily suggest checking out the two discs of music for prepared piano that've been released on Naxos - under a fiver and good, good stuff. There's also a good introductory disc for Philip Glass on that label, too - it's got some music from Ahknaten, his Violin Concerto and the music from "Company" - again, well-worth the purchase.

Naxos also have two Arvo Part discs (yes, yes and fuckin' YES!); the one with the multiple versions of Fratres on it is class, the other not so much. Look instead (if you're near HMV stores) for the HMV own-label disc of Part's stuff; it's got a good version of "Tabula Rasa" on it (which you _must_ hear) as well as several other tintinnabulist pieces.

Worth getting, if you can find it, is an Ultraviolet (Virgin) label disc called "Minimalism" - there's some Glass and some Adams, amongst others, on it, and it's at bargain sampler prices. Worth it.

Hmm. What else? Ryuichi Sakamoto's stuff it pretty good - the soundtrack for Love Is The Devil, especially, as is Morton Feldman's stuff.

What particular direction are you wanting to go, though - atonal, tuneless, spiffy melodies...?
 
 
..
19:36 / 07.10.01
I'm not at all familliar with musical terms so it's kind of hard to describe exactly what I'm after... that and I don't really know what I'm after. That said, I guess I'm looking for a smooth and soft, but subtly intense sound. Stuff that's abstract enough to fascinate my ears but not so abstract as to be emotionally irrelevant? I dunno.

I've sampled a few of the above suggestions from audiogalaxy:

Diamorphoses by Iannis Xenakis left my mind in tatters indeeeeed, Mystery Gypt. Is this piece typical of his stuff? I absolutely loved it.

Harry Partch stretched whatever part of my brain processes music, although it took a few seconds to get into the flow of Pollux. I enjoyed it but don't think I would listen to that style very often.

Steve Reich (Different Trains and It's Gonna Rain) I'll pass on. A little too "in your face" for me.

Two thumbs up for Arvo Part!

Nope, I hadn't heard Gorecki's 3rd, Jack Fear, thanks for pointing it out. Very beautiful, sublime melencholy...

Still waiting for more to finish downloading. Makes me wish I could just go and buy loads of CDs to sample, so I could hear more than one or two pieces from each composer. Thanks for all your suggestions!
 
 
Ronald Thomas Clontle
20:35 / 07.10.01
hey, did you look up "A Rainbow in Curved Air" by Terry Riley?

I know that is on Audiogalaxy, you really should try that one...

"Four Organs" may be more to your liking in the Steve Reich department too...
 
 
Seth
09:05 / 08.10.01
Flux: Sorry! I didn't check this thread until after you'd sent the tape. Don't send me any more stuff if it's going to cost to much or be inconvenient. I should have a return serve coming your way over the next couple of weeks.

Rothkoid: As I said on Saturday, I would cheerfully kill my own mother to get to your record collection! Plus you sell it so well...

I am totally slave to recommendations. If you're evangelical about a record, or there's something you think everyone should own, or there's a genre classic, send me that. Mini-disc is probably my preferred medium - so I'll shove some albums back your way in return.

Cheers, guys. I love this thread. This is some stuff I've wanted to get into for ages.
 
 
Seth
09:07 / 08.10.01
Oh yeah - check your private messages, Rothkoid.
 
 
Ronald Thomas Clontle
09:25 / 08.10.01
I've got to send out a few packages on Tuesday, so I think I'll send another out to you Expressionless...seriously, all in all that last package I sent cost me about $2.75 including the cost of the cd-r and the envelope, both of which I have in bulk.

It's no big deal. If yr interested, I shall help to feed yr interest.
 
 
Ronald Thomas Clontle
09:29 / 08.10.01
hey Tiger's Mouth... try downloading Throbbing Gristle's "Hamburger Lady" off of Audiogalaxy. I think you might find that one interesting, it suits yr criterion near as I can tell..

it's also the single most disturbing/scary/unnerving recordings I have ever heard. it makes me feel nervous and scared every time I hear it.

Also: do you have an interest in avant garde jazz? There's a lot of music by the Art Ensemble of Chicago, Sun Ra, Charles Mingus, Cecil Taylor, Eric Dolphy, etc that you should look into if that's the case...

Raymond Scott is someone worth looking into, as he combines avant composition with avant jazz with cartoon music (literally!) and pioneering electronic techniques.

And though he doesn't have much to do with avant composition (despite being practically unlistenable to most people's ears...) Jandek may be of interest...

[ 08-10-2001: Message edited by: Flux = Rad ]
 
 
bio k9
09:50 / 08.10.01
A few years ago I brought home a Steve Reich CD from the local library. Lots of repetitive drum beats. It almost made the girl I was living with at the time kill herself. I fucking loved it.
 
 
Seth
09:50 / 08.10.01
That's much appreciated, Flux.

You'll get something extra-special in return. Don't know what it is yet, but you will.
 
 
Cavatina
09:50 / 08.10.01
Expressionless, I'll add to the above chorus recommending Part - that Naxos recording of Fratres is an absolute gem. I've played it a lot lately - somehow it speaks to the times we've entered. Part's Te Deum (ECM Records 1505)done by the Estonian Philharmonic Choir and Tallinn Chamber Orchestra is more sombre but also beautiful.

Don't know if you'd like the music of Peter Sculthorpe, an Oz composer. His 'Sun Music' is well accepted.

[ 08-10-2001: Message edited by: Cavatina ]
 
 
The Return Of Rothkoid
09:50 / 08.10.01
Cavatina; I found Sculthorpe's CD of string works (Aust. Chamber Orchestra-recorded, the one that won the ARIA a couple of years ago, blue cover... could be called Works for Strings or somesuch) to be a better bet - the Port Essington piece in particular is great in terms of theme-blending. More propulsive; I found that his stuff like Kakadu just gave me the shits.

Also worth searching out: Elena Kats-Chernin has two discs that're worthwhile: Clocks features a metronome-liked piece for orchestra and tape, as well as some other obviously Russian-influenced pieces, while the second disc of hers I've got, whose name I can't remember (Unceremonious Processions? Think so.) is a collection of semi-improvised stuff done in-studio with oom-pah style instrumentation. Very strange, but very good.

Ligeti and Penderecki are worth a listen; if you've seen 2001 or The Shining, you'll be familiar with them, albeit in fairly truncated form, as Kubrick pretty much chose the big, emotive bits to use as punctuation, usually, rather than play the whole thing. Remember the sound of the monolith turning up and the apes shitting themselves? That's it, right there. Ligeti seems a little less frightening to me - Pendercki's Threnody for the victims of Hiroshima is absolutely terrifying, especially through headphones.

Though I'd imagine your neighbourhood wouldn't sleep if you had it playing loudly. Ahem.

I'd also recommend checking out some of John Zorn's compositions. There's thrashdeathkill stuff in there, sure, but some of his pieces are great. The String Quartets (with subtitles like "Tex Avery meets the Marquis De Sade") are very, very worthwhile, as is the piece for drums, "Redbird" (I think.).

As far as Pärt goes, too, I'd suggest looking out the Hilliard Ensemble's disc of choral recordings, De Profundis. The title composition is genius; it actually does sound like someone stuck in the bowels of the earth, lamenting their fate. S'good.

Closely aligned to Pärt - I think, anyway - is Toru Takemitsu. Quite meditative, almost abstract, I guess. I like, anyway.

Steve Reich's Drumming is on-sale in the HMV sale at the moment. About £6. I don't have it yet though...

Expressionless; what classical classical stuff do you listen to? I mean, Wagner, Mozart, Purcell - where you coming from?

[ 08-10-2001: Message edited by: Rothkoid ]
 
 
Seth
09:50 / 08.10.01
Pretty much what I told you on Saturday. The range of music I love has always far exceeded the boundaries of my record collection. With this in mind, I own no classical or orchestral music (Snapping Turtle has a bit, but only compilations of famous stuff).

My interest has developed from getting into Aphex Twin, Godspeed…!, A Silver Mount Zion, Eno, etc (all of whom are related either from direct influence or via their fanbase). I love Neubauten, but don't own any of their music. Regardless: consider me a blank slate. I haven't heard anything mentioned so far in this thread, and I'm now wanting to hear all of it.
 
 
jUne, a sunshiny month
10:50 / 08.10.01
la monte young
hard to find, and totally fucked up;
and not ten years old, uh.
 
 
Seth
13:54 / 08.10.01
I'm now the proud owner of Drumming by Steve Reich. Difference being I got the double CD version as opposed to the cheap version (not a mistake: it had more music and looked like a more complete edition). Will listen to it after work. Is there any difference between the recordings in the double CD set and the single CD?

I feel like I've just joined a club. Hope it's good!
 
 
minor 9th
18:18 / 08.10.01
Ohh it's great. Really. Until you have to start writing essays on it.
 
 
Seth
18:26 / 08.10.01
Ok. I'm in love. I'm hooked.

I'm not even through the first track and I think it's awesome. It's using a lot of ideas I use when I play percussion alongside a kit drummer or in drum circles. Very simple percussive melodies, that interlink with the other players to create melodies that warp and fluctuate, perhaps only existing in dislocation from any individual player. Quite a lot like some Japanese music I've heard (also reminds me of Photek's best).

Thanks, guys.
 
 
..
22:58 / 08.10.01
Flux: Still haven't got to "A Rainbow in Curved Air" yet. So much music, such a slow modem...

"Four Organs," by Reich I still couldn't handle. I don't know, one chord played over and over again for fifteen minutes... It might prove a useful piece for some kind of mental exercise, but...

"Hamburger Lady" is a keeper for sure! I'd heard of Throbbing Gristle but never before listened to them. Definetly gonna explore their stuff a bit further.

Downloaded a couple of Raymond Scott's works, but can't remember which ones. I liked them though. Perplexingly Silly.

I get the idea that listening to a whole Jandek CD would be a worthwhile experience. But then again, what would I know? I've only heard two short songs: "Alone on that Mountain" and "Pending Doom."

Avant Jazz I will definetly be exploring after I wade through all this stuff! God in Heaven, please send me a Cable internet hook-up, and a CD burner. I'm on my knees, pleading, begging!
 
 
The Sinister Haiku Bureau
08:01 / 09.10.01
I've said it before and I'll say it again: Glenn Branca. It was through hearing about this guy that I got into the weirdi-neo-post-classical subgenre in the first place. Symphonies of droning swelling noise from electric guitars. Listen to it closely enough and you start to hear spacetime melt. invents new instruments. invents new notes. Some of his stuff features Lee and Thurston from Sonic Youth.
Read blurb/articles here. http://www.tiac.net/users/blip/branca/branca.html
 
 
Ronald Thomas Clontle
11:41 / 09.10.01
quote:Originally posted by tiger's mouth lurks:
I get the idea that listening to a whole Jandek CD would be a worthwhile experience. But then again, what would I know? I've only heard two short songs: "Alone on that Mountain" and "Pending Doom."


THere's so many Jandek records, I've never heard either of those songs. I recommend trying to find "Naked in the Afternoon", "European Jewel (incomplete)", and "First You Think You're Fortune's Lovely" from his first record, then from his middle period "John Plays Drums" "Nancy Sings" "The Electric End" "European Jewel" (there's a weird electric version), "I Passed By The Building", then more recently, "Van Ness Mission", "Rain In Madison", "Janky", "The Beginning" and "I Went Outside" from his new record. Inexplicably, Jandek's latest work is all extremely lo-fi spoken word. and it scares the hell out of me.
 
 
Graham the Happy Scum
13:41 / 09.10.01
Have scratched the surface with some of this stuff. I did get a copy of Philip Glass' "North Star" album ages ago, (not bad for bending one's noodle, but not an everyday record, obviously) and was a bit taken aback recently when I heard a sample from it on a Handsome Boy Modelling School track.

Putting a lot of this in the queue of things to get, I'll probably get around to them in my thirties.
 
 
The Return Of Rothkoid
08:43 / 12.10.01
Expressionless: would be interested to hear your thoughts on that Pärt sampler.

Oh, and to make this relevant to everyone, there's a good reference for Arvo Pärt to be found here.
 
 
Ronald Thomas Clontle
14:39 / 12.10.01
Hey Tiger...

those two Jandek tunes you downloaded I downloaded just before, and I've got to say that those two are not at all indicative of Jandek's music...in fact, I'm suspicious that Pending Doom isn't even him.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
22:30 / 16.02.02
*****pushing this thread up from waaaaaay back in the archives because it has a lot of information relevant to the current discussion of Steve Reich********
 
 
Seth
18:55 / 17.02.02
Hooray! I liked this thread.

I have £15 to spend tomorrow. Wanna help me decide?
 
 
Locust No longer
17:13 / 19.02.02
Check out Cornelius Cardew's early stuff like "The Great Learning" which is a collection of peices for organ, a choir of "untrained voices" and tumbling stones. Interestingly enough Cardew stopped creating avant garde music because he felt it was elitist and instead concentrated on revolutionary marxist piano music. A lot of people think he was bumped off by the CIA. His life is almost more intersting than his music.

Peter Kowald's"The Ort Ensemble" is pretty interesting, as well. It's more from a free jazz point of view but is extremely influenced by avant garde classical.
 
  

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