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An announcement about the COLLECTIVE

 
 
Tom Coates
08:25 / 19.01.02
is located here
 
 
Rollo Kim, on location
10:53 / 19.01.02
Loads, loads better.

I've kind of been trying to keep mine as 'articles and observations' based as possible really. It's tricky but I thought that way would be more relevant to the Zine? Also, my real life isn't quite so interesting these days.
 
 
Disco is My Class War
11:45 / 19.01.02
Wow, spunky. Yes yes yes, I like. Am willing to stay, for definite.

This does bring up the prospect of rethinking the purposes of the collective blogs, though. I'm trying to organise myself a domain name which will house essays and fiction at the moment, and I want to have a blog on that -- slightly more personal than the collective one, maybe. I am willing to keep this one going as a link-machine and ideas-machine though, and a conduit for linking and talking about Barbelith threads.

What do people think? Are the blogs diaries, journals, weblogs? Does it matter if we're all different?

(Drunken 2am respect and total props to Tom: you rock, matey. Thanbks a million.)
 
 
Disco is My Class War
11:46 / 19.01.02
Oh, and I have a question: should we just email you the url's for any links we wanna put in the links section? I don't mind not having access codes and all that, but would like to personalise the links bit slightly.
 
 
Jack Fear
12:24 / 19.01.02
quote:There is no particular reason that people can't stay precisely where they are - except that I can't let anyone have access to the bits that allow you to edit your templates or reconfigure how the site works... Which we could never do before anyway, so what's the diff?

You know, I was going to write an enquiry about permalinks and archives this weekend--that was the "really cool thing" that didn't work--but, you magnificent bastard, you beat me to the punch. Lovely lovely work.

Some questions--not technical, but philosophical:
  • Should membership in the Collective be onsidered permanent? If I should decide to "retire," could I hand my slot off to someone else?
  • We've got some slots already lying fallow: Dustin Harbin never signed up for his, Grant doesn't use his (and has said he has no interest in posting to other than the Collective Mainpage), and Kirk Nice has apparently fucked off in a huff: can these pages be repurposed to give voices to other members of the board?
  • Links section should definitely include URLs for any boardmembers who maintain personal websites or blogs.
  • Am I alone in thinking that the "Dayglo" and "Zenith" headers should be changed to Plums" and "Flyboy," respectively? Or would that be more trouble than it's worth?
  • Presumably the links to the individual pages will return, in the "links" bar off to the side--is that right?
  • What about you, boss? Is the Collective working out the way you'd hoped? What say the People?
I'll stay if you'll have me, Tom. I know I expressed some doubts about this enterprise at the beginning, but having seen the blogs in action, I think they (along with the Zine, but that's another topic) help create a sense of community. Thank you much: you rock my world down to a nub.
 
 
rizla mission
12:32 / 19.01.02
oh, shit, I haven't put anything on my blog since .. June wasn't it? or September?

sorry, sorry, sorry...
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
13:14 / 19.01.02
I would be very interested in taking one of the vacated blogs...

[ 19-01-2002: Message edited by: Flux = Space Is The Place ]
 
 
Jack Fear
13:16 / 19.01.02
Ooh, get him. Blog envy.
 
 
Ganesh
13:20 / 19.01.02
Actually, having seen how little some post and thought "Even I could do better than that", I wouldn't mind a go either...
 
 
Our Lady of The Two Towers
13:46 / 19.01.02
Yes, me too, perhaps every now and then, though my experience of finding new stuff is often clicking on links I find here...
 
 
grant
14:00 / 19.01.02
You know, it might be easier forming a community on www.livejournal.com - if users feel like posting pictures, changing names, forging their own looks, etc.

But I like the new look - I actually just clicked over to it at random today (home from work) because an LJ friend is setting something similar up (weblog network/community) on MovableType.com and it's making my head spin.

Live Journal does blank out a lot, though - offline for a while, then back. Disgruntling.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
14:07 / 19.01.02
I'd do a blog related to and part of this site, but I don't think I would as committed to something that was off-site... does that make any sense?
 
 
Tom Coates
15:12 / 19.01.02
Anyone who wants to maintain a weblog on barbelith.com is welcome to do so - just e-mail me and I'll set it up. As part of the same deal, you get access to the collective weblog at the front - and are gently asked to post something there every so often that you think might be of interest to the rest of the people on the site.

As to the links section on the right - I haven't decided how I'm going to handle that. The logical thing is to open that up to the individual blogger by making it another weblog that they can edit how they like. However while this wouldn't be a lot of work for one site, when it gets to ten or so... sheesh... it could be a pain to set up.

Similarly I'm not entirely keen on being sent links to put in those places. Although I accept that this might be the only real option...

I'll think about this more logically.

As to people changing the name of their blogs - that IS really easy, and I can do it without any trouble at all.

Changing the web address, however is slightly more tricky - so bear in mind that I only really want to do that VERY OCCASIONALLY. You might each individually get one change of URL a year. Most. And if that restricts your ability to switch fiction suits... well... sorry, but I have to earn a living sometime!
 
 
Not Here Still
15:10 / 20.01.02
Damnit, I wish I'd read this thread earlier today, becasue I spent a lot of the day putting together a (rudimentary) blog.

Which I'll probably now keep.
 
 
The Return Of Rothkoid
16:23 / 20.01.02
I wondered (in that thread about what could possibly change in the BU when the backend's tinkered with) a while ago what the purpose of the Collective actually was; especially now that individual's blogs have become fairly widespead. Does it have a real role now, or what? If they're just personal tale-telling, is that a worthwhile use of bandwidth? Or are they meant to foster discussion that'll bleed off onto the site, much like the articles are supposed to?

No offense to any collectivists, but I just think that it seems like a reasonably small cadre of members standing in for the wider community - is that a fair or reliable picture of what's going on here?

But the new design is lovely, yes.
 
 
Tom Coates
18:51 / 20.01.02
I wouldn't mind more debate about the role of the collective. Initially I thought of it as members that were kind of 'keepers of the flame' using them as a kind of columnist space. But they haven't really emerged in that way.

I'm relatively comfortable with the idea of it just being an extra piece of community stuff - that anyone who's been around here a fair amount of time can ask for one. But I agree - there is a bandwidth issue (although less so with the new exorbitant monthly bill I'm paying - perhaps I should only have that open to people paying something through paypal or something).

I'm also kind of comfortable with the idea that people might decide to migrate their blogs after a while as well. Take them 'mainstream' or something.

I hereby open up the floor to all current collectivists, potential collectivists and anyone else who wants to stick their oar in. Completely open discussion - if you think they're pointless, then say so.
 
 
Ellis says:
19:10 / 20.01.02
I think they're pointless (in the sense that i never read them). But i want one anyway.
 
 
The Return Of Rothkoid
09:21 / 21.01.02
[raises hand]

I think they're a bit pointless, what with lots of BU members having blogs of their own, now. And a couple are updated next-to-never. And such. I think it sets up a bit of an unintended divide, maybe, especially as some posts on 'em are exactly like the ones you'd read on a million weblogs out there.

Like <ahem> mine.
 
 
Rollo Kim, on location
09:21 / 21.01.02
quote:Originally posted by Tom Coates:
Initially I thought of it as members that were kind of 'keepers of the flame' using them as a kind of columnist space. But they haven't really emerged in that way.


This makes the most sense to me - the Blogs as 'columnists' in addition to the Zine - more a part of the Zine. Surely this is their bestest, most shiniest potential? Otherwise maybe they are 'just blogs' = no more or less pointless than any other blog.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
09:21 / 21.01.02
Surely the first thing to do is to ask the people who eithe hardly or literally never update their Collective blogs, whether they still want them?
 
 
Eloi Tsabaoth
09:21 / 21.01.02
I'll post more! I promise! Why, I'll... I'll post today! Just give me one more chance! I'll make good! I can't go back to being blogless! You don't know what's it's like out there!!
 
 
Our Lady of The Two Towers
10:18 / 21.01.02
Possibly part of the problem with the Blogs is they aren't particularly obvious from the main page in the same way the articles are? Maybe in the same way that you quote a bit of the articles you need to quote a bit from a randomly chosen blog?
 
 
Rollo Kim, on location
11:01 / 21.01.02
Columnists. Columnists. Columnists.

Should the links beside the Collective blog be to the individual blogs themselves, as well as the zine and underground?
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
12:36 / 21.01.02
beeen thinking about this, as I don't think i have regular enough access anymore for mine to function reasonably as a part of the webzine/collective. also that my interests in writing it probably don't relate to the overall project that well. hence the fact that it's (for those purposes) way too personal and diary-ish... suspect it could be better used by someone else, really, and someone who knows/is more inclined to find interesting stuff on the web...

would like to hang onto the stuff i've written for it, tho'. is this a possible?
 
 
Spatula Clarke
12:48 / 21.01.02
I'd love to post more to the Collective front page, but I've always seen it as being slightly pointless. The links that get posted there are inevitably also posted to the board. That's fine, but I wonder if anyone other than board regulars bother to read the Collective. If not, then it does seem a bit of a waste of time.

I'd suggest making the Collective far more of an individual entity, distinct from the board in much the same way as the webzine is. Maybe make it more visible; right now it's hidden out of the way. Giving it a proper link on the webzine, rather than the simple drop-down box, may pull in more non-Underground readers, making the whole thing more worthwhile.

Also tempted to ask to be included in the individual blogs, but not certain I could make it interesting or regular enough. Need to think on this a bit more.

[ 21-01-2002: Message edited by: E. Randy Love You Long Time ]
 
 
The Return Of Rothkoid
13:09 / 21.01.02
Plums: presuming the Collective's run off Blogger, there shouldn't be a problem about moving the content - it's talked about in their "how-to" area. You could probably move it to a blogspot space if hosting's a problem.
 
 
Rollo Kim, on location
14:10 / 21.01.02
If people are posting links that are already featured in the Underground, is the Collective a nice way of sucking in visitors who maybe would not check out the Underground [because maybe not all visitors are initially drawn the to idea of 'discussion']. The Collective as a gatehouse to the Underground. A ticket kiosk...
 
 
grant
19:22 / 21.01.02
I always treated the Collective blog as a way to point people browsing blogger.com toward the site, and kind of listing off the things I thought were most interesting on here somewhere else.

A friend of mine just set me up something on movabletype.com (www.flyingfists.org) so now I have three personal blogs (counting the soon-t-be deceased blogger one and the livejournal one) and no idea what to put on any of them.
 
 
Disco is My Class War
21:14 / 21.01.02
Okay, considering a whole lot of people have just agreed that the personal tilt of the current barbeblogs is bad and should be gotten rid of, hmmm... I would like to beg to differ. Firstly 'cause even though the blogs aren't very 'representative', what would be? We'd have to turn the whole place into a mini-blogspot. And we sure as hell ain't doing that, are we Tom?

But also, personally, there are some distinctions between what I post about my personal life and what I post in a 'writing for the media' kind of way, but in some ways I think it's quite a 'political statement' -- or a statement of philosophy -- to have them in the same space. Actually I find totally non-personal, informative blogs incredibly boring.

This may not be what Tom wants -- and I am more than happy to excise all personal references, talk about Barbelith threads, and get all 'let's get hits so let's link to lots of other things' about it. But I fear I would get bored. And want to go away and really focus on my own, compltely limit-free, bogging space.

(*sigh* Perhaps I should do just that.)

Also, it would be quite appropriate to have some kind of register of Barbelith people's weblogs and journals. Almost everyone has one, right? Maybe we could start an ongoing thread in the policy... just urls, no comments.
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
17:32 / 22.01.02
quote:This may not be what Tom wants -- and I am more than happy to excise all personal references, talk about Barbelith threads, and get all 'let's get hits so let's link to lots of other things' about it. But I fear I would get bored. And want to go away and really focus on my own, compltely limit-free, bogging space.

yeah, this is pretty much how i feel, I really like the personal way mine works, especially as it feels right now that alot of the personal stuff i post isn't that distinct from what i'd be writing for a political/polemical space (i'd probably still be plugging my friends' lingerie companies!)... but recognise that this may not coincide with what's best for the overall barbelith project...

opinions?
 
 
grant
03:09 / 23.01.02
Funny, I thought our personal lives *were* the project.
 
 
Rollo Kim, on location
16:29 / 23.01.02
Nice.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
09:24 / 23.02.02
This is probably just me being dumb.

Where have the links to individual Collective blogs gone? There doesn't seem to be a way to get to them on the main Collective page any more.

Shit. Now I remember. It was just me being dumb.

Are plans afoot to get the links embedded into the page layout again? Otherwise newbies are never going to even know that the individual blogs exist once the post that contains the links gets shunted into the archives.

[ 23-02-2002: Message edited by: E. Randy Dupre ]
 
  
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