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Underground > Radio & Music >

Left-field werido twanging synthy bloopy crap

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Jack The Bodiless

07:59 / 03.10.01

Handbags at dawn, then...

Tyrone's the only person who's ever had me interested in listening to disco, by the way. The way he described the less well-known stuff (I think it was on the last board) made it sound incredible. The only other person I've ever encountered who was capable of communicating this kind of passion for music was you, my brother. Just thought I'd mention it.

07:59 / 03.10.01

I remember! I asked him for a tape but never got one...

Still up for selling your wares, TM? If so, my home address is yours.

10:15 / 03.10.01

Electronica.

One word guaranteed to make me throw things. What does it mean? Nothing. It's a vapid word to describe all sorts of unrelated music. And I hate it.

I could rant for longer but I'm not going to.

The Natural Way

10:46 / 03.10.01

"Electronica" is such a shite term. It basically describes the entire spectrum of electronic music that refuses to conform to a genre or play by "the rules". You can't compare Kid 606 to Boards of Canada to Autechre to Mouse On Mars...... Just won't work. Some of it's warm and fuzzy, some of it's glacial and cold, some of it grooves like a bastard, and some of it has you tying yourself in knots trying to make sense of the time structure. To slag off this "genre" is pretty much impossible, 'cause, strictly speaking, it's not a "genre" - it's just not reducable in the same way.

And I love "simple" jungle, house, techno...whatever.

Oh, and disco.

And Talking Heads, and Patti Smith and........

Regrettable Juvenilia

10:50 / 03.10.01

'Eletcronica' is just what people too snobby or "alternative" to admit they like dance music call dance music.

The Natural Way

10:51 / 03.10.01

I agree.

It was the same with the "intelligent" label.

Jack The Bodiless

11:13 / 03.10.01

Oh. I thought 'electronica' was a catch-all term for any electronic-based music not covered by the term 'dance music'.

deletia

11:20 / 03.10.01

Oh, you bunch of hapless fools.

"Electronica", obviously, describes music which sounds like early 90s supergroup Electronic. So, for example, some Pet Shop Boys, later period New Order (but not Monaco)....that kind of thing.

Certainly it describes little of Coldwater Suplex's "talent", except arguably Chintz Meridian.

Jack The Bodiless

11:26 / 03.10.01

Oh, stop it, Chimney Boy...

11:56 / 03.10.01

I agree (above usage = heat of the moment). See my first post in the thread.

But then, any label is pretty useless.

No star here laces

13:07 / 03.10.01

I think JTB is on the money there. If its danceable I wouldn't call it electronica. I'd call it good. But enough of that - we've been round them houses.

But seriously, I do think there is a problem with the way that this kind of music appears to present itself. I don't know whether it is the artists who are responsible, or their record labels' marketing departments or the compartmentalising music press, but I do find it deeply offensive and elitist that we get sold this stuff as "the sound of the future" and "thinking man's music" etc. etc. Particularly as what electronica essentially represents is the invasion of a basically working class and ethnic musical movement by the white, educated middle classes. To laud electronica as being intelligent, progressive and sophisticated is effectively to say that techno, electro (the hip hop kind)and house were none of these things, and therefore that the variously poor, black and gay people involved in making these genres were not as consummate artists as the Oxbridge graduates churning out electronica albums.

Or you could say that all this is a hopelessly overstated case of 'political correctness gone mad'. Whatever.

13:14 / 03.10.01

quote:Originally posted by Flyboy:
'Eletcronica' is just what people too snobby or "alternative" to admit they like dance music call dance music.

Except that ..er.. much of the stuff refered to as 'electronica' is utterly impossible to dance to..

In fact, I'd like to register dissatisfaction with the term 'dance music'. I mean .. what the fuck? It suggests that a)the entire point of said music is the dancing that accompanies it and b)no other music can be danced to.

The only time you could actually, correctly use the term 'dance music' would be if you were refering to every noise that's ever been made that has the vaguest hint of beats and rhythms..

um, help, I've lost interest in my argument half way through and can't be arsed to carry on..

13:16 / 03.10.01

quote:Originally posted by Jack The Bodiless:
The only other person I've ever encountered who was capable of communicating this kind of passion for music was you, my brother.

That sounds so much like a quote from Frasier it hurts.

14:21 / 03.10.01

I don't find it offensive that we're being sold it as "the sound of the future." Practically everything gets sold to us that way, and I tend to just ignore it these days.

The "intelligent" or "thinking man's music" tags are rubbish: agreed. However, that doesn't discount the music made by the people included in the category. Most of the artists mentioned demonstrate what seems to be genuine knowledge, love and (in some cases) real links to their roots. I would also hazard a guess that most of them are not Oxbridge candidates (some of the ones I mentioned definitely aren't). My friends who make this kind of music are all working class geniuses who never went to Uni (and they also make tons of hard house - they enjoy both styles equally).

I think the majority of cynicism should be directed at the music media that make the labels, marketing and categories for these artists. Most of the time, it's a reflection on the values of a few shitty journalists and record labels rather than the artists themselves.

The Natural Way

19:09 / 03.10.01

And the idea that most people who make 'electronica' are Oxbridge graduates is patently crap. Tyrone, nothing you said in your post actually reflects upon electronic music or its creators; as Expressionless says, it reflects the opinions of some journos and the mags they work for.

The fact is, I got into dance music before anything else because it seemed so futuristic - it pushed the boundaries of popular taste and it was new and exciting. There's loads of novelty in electronica (and loads of artists who make this stuff include things on their album that you can dance to - it's fucking undeniable that the line between "dance" and "electronica" is hazy at best), and I've always loved novelty. And there's fucking loads of emotion in it, too. (I know you said you were joking earlier, but, somehow, I don't think you were. Not entirely.)

And, actually, there is a grain of truth (perhaps more than a grain) to the idea that electronica has helped define the "future" of popular music. You can hear the impact of the weird beats and time structures in loads of chart records - sure, the white middle classes have fed off working class music, but why can't it be a two way st? And then there's that obsession with novelty I mentioned earlier. This stuff doesn't rest on its laurels.

But (and here we come full circle) if you went up to any of my friends who make this sort of stuff and said "hey, do you think your sound's the future?" they'd probably piss themselves laughing.

I dunno, Tyrone, I like you and all, but sometimes you seem a bit....bigoted. It's as though, if something's not "really accessible" and great to dance to and if it's not made by some house legend in New York, it's somehow less authentic. Who gives a shit about things being "simple" and "easy to listen to" all the time, anyway? Maybe I'm just wrong, but that's just the impression I get.

20:17 / 03.10.01

Tyrone: sorry I got narky with you earlier. I'm not usually so easily riled. Must be near my period.

No star here laces

07:40 / 04.10.01

Oh I'll freely admit to being a music bigot, and quite possibly a music racist as well. You're right in that I was joking and not joking - that is pretty much my personal opinion of electronica but I'm aware that (a) there is no point in dismissing musical styles out of hand and that (b) my opinions are based on no real knowledge of the genre. Any comments made are therefore made fully in the knowledge that they won't be convincing to anyone. And no offence taken, enigmatic dude, I would send you a tape but am deck-less at the moment so it'd be difficult.

Anyways more on this genre thing (cos it's more interesting than trading recommendations for the nth time, no?). As I said, I know that there is no point in dismissing genres and that there is loads of good music out there in every style. But I will always still choose to stick within relatively narrow musical boundaries and to spend time searching out the obscure and ignoring the popular because I think life is more interesting that way. To me, great music and interesting new styles come to a certain extent from a narrowness of mind and an immersion in one particular musical area.

Cross-pollination is interesting, but I think of it like entropy: if you cross-pollinate forever you come up with featureless mush. That's why a lot of 80s pop (and I mean the kind that you get on movie soundtracks to films like 'Bachelor Party' not the fun sexy stuff) is so dreadful - it has a little bit of punk, a little bit of disco, a little bit of ska and the end result is 100% excrement.

I feel myself weakening as I age (been listening to a bit of Whiskytown and Old '97s cos Kali goes on about 'em so much) but I think it's important, dammit, that I keep buying trainspottery hip-hop and ignoring guitars, and Rizla keeps buying anything shouty and nothing melodic etc. etc. Vive la difference 'n all that.

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