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Underground > Radio & Music >

What is Rock and Roll?

01:05 / 22.08.01

What defines it? The 4/4 beat? I-IV-V chord progressions? Guitars, bass, and drums? Performers who wiggle? the volume? the attitude? The sex? the youth? the glamour?

I ask because I've been trying to figure out one of the greatest live shows I ever saw...

John Cale at Lupo's Heartbreak Hotel, in Providence: Cale at the piano, the amazing BJ Cole on pedal steel, and a string quartet sawing and throbbing away. No guitar, no bass, no drums: judiciously amplified: all performers seated: most of 'em on the far side of forty, and dog-ugly; playing elegant, un-poppy faux-European chamber lieder spiked with swoops of noise and anchored by Cale's metronomic right hand.

In other words, utterly devoid of any "rock" elements, but was still the rockingest show I've ever seen.

So.

(A) What elements define rock and roll?

(B) Have you ever had a "rock" experience similarly devoid of any surface "rock" elements?

The Return Of Rothkoid

10:09 / 22.08.01

I've always thought that rock was a feel, more than anything else. It's not wedded to guitars and chords as much as the record-store division of things is... it's like charisma, but dirty?

Speaking of which, Dirty Three are about as rock as it gets. Abandoned playing with a sense of intensely personal attachment. Does it for me.

Regrettable Juvenilia

11:02 / 22.08.01

Ah, but there's a huuuuuge difference between 'rock' and 'rock'n'roll'. Huge.

Rock'n'roll, for example, has to be on some level, always, fun. Rock doesn't. Rock'n'roll always has to be sexy. Rock doesn't.

11:28 / 22.08.01

Not sure. But I do now have the "where'd ya learn how to shake that booty?" sample from that Lionrock track going 'round in my head. (the sample previous to that asks the same question)

12:13 / 22.08.01

Rothkoid,

Have you even listened to "Shake Rattle & Roll?" I mean, REALLY listened to it? It fucking ROCKS!!!

But what is rock n' roll? And how is it different than rock?

Zeppelin: Rock
Ramones: Rock n' Roll
Hmmm... must think about this...

The Return Of Rothkoid

12:29 / 22.08.01

Yeah. But not as much as Jerry-Lee Lewis. Rock N Roll in music, but rock in other aspects. Though you could substitute "bugfuck" for "rock", too.

12:38 / 22.08.01

i think the term "rock'n'roll" conjures up a mental image of a certain lifestyle sold to me by the media. y'know -- fast livin', drugs and sex and trashing hotel rooms. often the music comes way down on the list.

rock is a subgenre of music, loud guitars and percussion, that sorta thing.

um...i think.

and dammit, now i have that "where d'ya learn how to shake that booty" thing in my head too! still, great tune. "we have a new favourite vegetable...asparagus...let's go back to the station... "

Graham the Happy Scum

13:16 / 22.08.01

Reckoned it's that moment of "UNGH!". Guitars and drums help of course, but they're not essential.

Your daddy's rich, your mother's a pretty thing...

15:13 / 22.08.01

Rock 'n' roll is a-live-fast-die-young supersonic jet. Let's make this noise and let's make it now.

Rock is more respectful of its past. It's a Flying Fortress. Occasionally it's a 747.

01

05:29 / 23.08.01

What is rock?
Four letters.

A-C-D-C

11:43 / 23.08.01

quote:Originally posted by zerone:
What is rock?
Four letters.

A-C-D-C

This is the coolest response ever.

13:23 / 24.08.01

We salute you.

09:15 / 25.08.01

quote:Originally posted by The Flyboy:

"Elvis Presley ain't got no soul
Little Richard is rock and roll
You may dig on the Rolling Stones
But they ain't come up with that shit on they own..."
- Mos Def, 'Rock and Roll'

[ 22-08-2001: Message edited by: The Flyboy ]

...but apparently Living Colour is rock'n'roll?

Graham the Happy Scum

13:12 / 26.08.01

I dunno about you, but I'm digging the "Long Way To The Top" doco series. Pub rock vs Countdown this week!

15:05 / 26.08.01

quote:Originally posted by Cop Killer:

...but apparently Living Colour is rock'n'roll?

Dude, the "Cult of Personality" rocks the house.

By the way, I'd like to add here that rock n' roll must be sexy, and also it must be able to be played loud, and parents must object to it as "just noise" or "that HORRIBLE music." It must conjure up images of leather jackets and swigging Jack straight from the bottle, etc. It must come from the kind of band or performer whose name is forever etched in schooldesks around the world.

00:54 / 27.08.01

i get told my band has played some "pretty rockin' shows" which i find funny... 4 horns, accordion and drums, YEAH! that's ROCK!... fugit, we we're tryin' to be POP! uh yeah...

03:05 / 27.08.01

I have to disagree slightly with the rock'n'roll = pop/rock = not pop. The only reason for my disagreement is that I don't think rock'n'roll is all pop music, a lot of it is, but not all; what I think the distinction is: rock'n'roll has a certain aspect of fun to it (not that some "rock" doesn't, but whatever), which isn't neccesarily pop, this is why I consider Motorhead a rock'n'roll band, but they ain't poppy so much and "rock" is more about being an "artist" which gives way to a lot of pretentious crap (which is what I think of John Cale's solo career and most of Lou Reed's to, come to think of it), I'm not saying that I don't like "rock" and there can be a lot of mingling between the two (Bowie does this well on Ziggy Stardust with "rock" songs like "Ziggy Stardust" and "Five Years" and rock'n'roll tunes like "Hang On To Yourself" and "Suffragette City").

And, Cherry, I do know "Cult of Personality" fucking rocks, that's why Living Colour is my favorite black metal band.

A

10:48 / 27.08.01

rock'n'roll is about the ROCK and the ROLL. a lot of bands get the rock, but miss the roll.

the rock makes you want to jump around.
the roll makes you want to fuck.

put that together and then scratch your head about why people would rather listen to ambient music.

kids gleefully tore up theaters when they heard "rock around the clock" in the movie Blackboard Jungle in the 50's, but i bet it also put a lot of 'em in the mood for gettin' it on.

or, to put forth another theory- Neil Young (i think) was quoted as saying that rock'n'roll didn't come from the blues and country. rather, rock'n'roll was always there, and blues and country were systems put in place to supress them.

you can listen to some old blues, country, or jazz (especially) records and actually hear rock'n'roll starting to break out.

Neil said that the major difference is that the blues and country encouraged a bit of a good time, but it was important to not do anything you wouldn't regret, or suffer from in the morning. with rock'n'roll, it's have a good time and fuck what happens because of it.

as for question B, i saw Aqua performing on some music awards show the other night. it wasn't musically rock'n'roll, but it was the most rock'n'roll-in-spirit thing i've seen in a long time.

Cop Killer, if Living Colour are your favourite black metal band, why are you named after a Body Count song?

Living Colour were the first band i ever saw. they were good.

adam

22:13 / 27.08.01

quote:Originally posted by count adam:
Cop Killer, if Living Colour are your favourite black metal band, why are you named after a Body Count song?

It's a joke, a play on words (this is the second time I've used this joke on Barbelith and had to explain it [the first time Tannhauser told me that black metal is also a genre of music...]).

17:03 / 28.08.01

I think it's sad to see and sad to say, but rock'n'roll is in fact dying. Of course it depends on what you'd consider rock'n'roll. There are so many near forgotten and rejected sub-genres that it's hard to admit rock is dying. This boy-band bullshite has seriously taken it's toll. At any rate if a band is made up of 2 or more members that consist of guitar(usually distorted), drums, and vocals, and it makes you or anybody move their arse and not just bob their head, than I think in can be considered ROCK'N'ROLL.

13:08 / 29.08.01

quote:...rock'n'roll is in fact dying.

Oh, do fuck off with that.

What is Rock&Roll? Sex with the threat of violence just below the surface. Pure animal instinct.

Regrettable Juvenilia

13:23 / 29.08.01

If you limit rock'n'roll to just "a band is made up of 2 or more members that consist of guitar(usually distorted), drums, and vocals", then yes, it probably is dying. But why would you want to do a thing like that?

'Lapdance' by N.E.R.D. is the most rock'n'roll song I've heard this year, I think. "It's Harvey baby, Christ on the arm, I'm gnarly baby..."

15:44 / 29.08.01

quote:Originally posted by Biodegradable K-9:

What is Rock&Roll? Sex with the threat of violence just below the surface. Pure animal instinct.

Don't forget about drugs...