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Reggae (was 'Bob Marley: Legend')

 
  

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bio k9
18:01 / 22.07.01
Why is Legend the only reggae album anyone seems to own? I'd like to hear about your favorite non-Marley reggae album. Mine is "Heart of the Congos" by The Congos.
 
 
gentleman loser
18:31 / 22.07.01
I think it's simply because it is a greatest hits collection from the best known reggae artist in history. Yes, I own a copy and it is the only reggae album that I own.

I think that people shy away from buying albums from artists and genres that they don't know, unless your one of those people that buys dozens of CDs a week. I don't have any friends that are into reggae and I've never bothered to mess around much with the MP3 thing, so I can't easily find out what artists that I might like.

So, if anyone out there could give me some suggestions about which albums or groups to start with, I'd be very appreciative!
 
 
Spatula Clarke
18:41 / 22.07.01
From the Kill A Sacred Cow thread:

Because most high street record shops don't exactly stock a huge amount of reggae and people are generally lazy. I also doubt that any other record in the genre has ever recieved anywhere near the same amount of marketing and publicity as Legend. Major labels don't push reggae because it doesn't sell. Why doesn't it sell? Well, because no major label has ever - apart from in this one case - made any effort to try to sell it.

Check it out. Searching Amazon for the URLs in the post below, I noticed this.

quote:Browse for music in the following styles:

Blues
Children's Music
Classical
Country
Dance & Electronic
Indie
Jazz
Lounge, Nostalgia & Exotica
Miscellaneous
Pop
R&B, Soul & Hip-Hop
Rock
Soundtracks
World & Folk


Bastards.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
19:08 / 22.07.01
gentleman loser>

Get Arkology - Lee 'Scratch' Perry. Brilliant, absolutely essential collection of Perry-produced stuff from his Black Ark days. If you need an introduction the wonderful worlds of reggae and dub, this is the one to get. If you want to sample more of his amazing skill as a producer, both Lost Treasures Of The Ark and Produced And Directed By The Upsetter contain many, many gems.

Sampling the lighter, pop side of reggae? The Trojan Records box sets Tighten Up and Jamaican Hits should see you right, as should one of the best soundtrack albums ever, The Harder They Come.

Dub, though, is where the real passion and innovation lies (lay?). Deep bass, heavy and hard. Funky space noises and weird effects.

Kung Fu Meets The Dragon by The Mighty Upsetter (Scratch again) is required listening. Picture, if you can, a Jamaican kung-fu flick. Okay? Now imagine the soundtrack. Fan-fucking-tastic, as I believe the saying goes.

The Great Pablo, a collection of tracks by Augustus Pablo is the best way to introduce yourself to the spirituality that this music can contain. This is truly wonderful, hauntingly beautiful music. I tend to use the word 'genius' far too frequently, but Pablo is deserving of no lesser title. His Original Rockers Volume 1 album is often named as one of the absolutely indespensible records to have in your collection, but I'd start with the former compilation first.

Again, there's a number of Trojan Records box sets out there in the same series as the two mentioned above (they all say 'Limited Edition' on the front, but I doubt that they're in danger of becoming scarce any time soon). Each only costs the same as a regular album, too. Three CDs for £11.99 is not to be sniffed at, my friend.

One album, though, blew my head apart like no other. That was Cry Tuff Dub Encounter Chapter 3, by Prince Far-I And The Arabs. I don't have the necessary skills to describe this record. It honestly is that good.

(As ever, I'll be more than happy to chuck some tracks onto a CD and send it your way. If you want, let me know.)
 
 
Spatula Clarke
19:41 / 22.07.01
How can anybody be in doubt of the brilliance of records with covers like these?





I'm afraid I'm a bit shit when it comes to new or recent reggae albums, but Sizzla's Royal Son Of Ethiopia (which, oops, is ragga as opposed to reggae) burns with a righteous anger. Ohhhh yes.
 
 
Margin Walker
00:10 / 23.07.01
About time somebody started this thread!! I've been wanting to start something like this for a long time--ever since the Barbelith Top 300 had only 2 reggae albums (and frankly the only reason the Lee Perry "Great Ape" LP made the list was for the goofy cover art ).

The weird thing to me is that most everybody here has punk &/or hip-hop tastes--and reggae is tied so closely to both. Like Marley sung in "Punky Reggae Party": "rejected by society/treated with impunity/protected by their dignity". The Clash, The Slits, P.I.L., The Ruts--all before Op Ivy punked up Ska and launched a thousand generic ska-punk bands.

As for hip-hop, supposedly it goes back to Dolemite, Andre Williams & the NYC streets--it just so happens that toasters were doing the same thing over Ska & Rocksteady beats in Jamaica at the very same time. Go figure, eh?

Personally, I dig the old school stuff: Toots & the Maytals, Peter Tosh, Jimmy Cliff, etc. I think Dancehall is great to dance to (for me--it's a lot more, erm, "organic" than techno) , but pretty boring to actually listen to.

And I can't give enough respect to Blood & Fire Records for 1) putting out the coolest dub/reggae compilations imaginable & [more importantly] 2) finally paying song authors/performers their looong overdue royalties. The scene in "The Harder They Come" where Jimmy Cliff is only paid $20 for the complete rights to the title track is not an overstatement in the reggae music biz.
 
 
Not Here Still
00:10 / 23.07.01
Yes, indeedy - Blood and Fire are the absolute dons when it comes to reggae re-issues.
There's nothing better than whacking on of their compliations on, turning up the bass and the volume on your speakers, and watching them bounce across the floor. (Not to be recommended if you have sensitive neighbours - or expensive speakers.)

Other artists/producers who come well recommended include:

Horace Andy, who made a bit of a comeback thanks to Massive Attack but whose 70s records were absolutely brilliant.
The man has got one of the best voices in music going, and it would be a shame for everyone to only have a copy of it on Blue Lines.

Gregory Isaacs, the Cool Ruler who - like many reggae artists - has a bit of a patchy recording career but is an absolue gem if you get the right album - listen to a few first. Night Nurse comes highly recommended as a good tune, and I've got one of his albums on Acid Jazz, of all labels, which is great.

Junior Murvin, whose Police and Thieves you will have got if you've bought Arkology, or you may have heard being used in the most stereotypical way imaginable (ie: near a load of people smoking weed) in [spits] Lock, Stock and Two Smoking Barrels.
However, the album's still a cracker.


Burning Spear, who have a massive fan in Mark Lamaar - who strikes me as an odd authority on reggae, but proved himself to be so recently on Radio Two (aaaarrgh, I listened to Radio Two? Shoot Me!)
During this brilliant series on Reggae - which I don't know how he got onto Radio Two - he pointed out that if Burning Spear were a rock band, then every home would have a copy of their song 'Social Living.'

King Tubby - Butan influence on practically more genres than anyone else except perhaps Elvis Presley is unfair to the (proper) King - Elvis was a hero to most, but he never meant shit to me.

Sly and Robbie are among the great players in Reggae - they were most recently in the news with their album with trip-hopper and U2 producer (though I'm not sure he likes being reminded) Howie B, but they've played with everyone, from the sublime (Serge Gainsbourg, Marley) to the ridiculous (Simply Red).
Having said that, there are tons of other brilliant players and groups who never got the recognition they deserve. I'm only giving Sly and Robbie props cos they're popping into my mind at the mo'

Oh, and if you are going to only own one Bob Marley album - look at it this way (in the UK at least).

Legend is about £15 nowadays, unless you get it in a sale.

Buy the Songs of Freedom Boxset instead - it's only about £30 if you shop around, and it's a hell of a lot wider ranging and far better value for your cash.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
16:48 / 25.07.01
I've got to say, the almost complete lack of interest in this thread is somewhat depressing. I guess most Undergrounder's follow the idiotic view that 'reggae is shit'.

Sad.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
16:59 / 25.07.01
Well, I'm interested but don't know enough about the subject to contribute (a few Horace Andy tracks, Sizzla's Kilonji and the odd other thing here or there being about all that I'm familiar with - all good stuff though). Honestly though Randy, if we all went around bumping up the threads we started cos they were important but weren't getting enough attention, I'd be here all... ah. But thanks for doing it anyway.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
17:02 / 25.07.01
(Shush - I'm trying to create some interest by being deliberately quarrelsome. Don't give the game away )
 
 
Red Cross Iodized Salt
18:13 / 25.07.01
quote:Originally posted by E Randy Dub It:
I guess most Undergrounder's follow the idiotic view that 'reggae is shit'.


Don't you mean that 'all reggae is vile'?

Reggae is one of those things that a lot of people don't get because all they've been exposed to are the chart hits of Bob Marley and UB40. My best mate's older brother got us into Prince Far I and Linton Kwesi Johnson when we were youngsters (or youths) - Far I's commentary on 'The big fight' and Johnson's 'Street 66' were on a compilation tape he put together - which in turn got me tracking down stuff by King Tubby, Lee Perry, Augustus Pablo, Scientist, etc. To this day I'd still kill (or at least maim) to see the Jah Shaka or Fatman soundsystems in full effect...

Jah Warrior Records (current home to Alton Ellis, Jah Warrior, Hughie Izachaar as well as the aforementioned Horace Andy) is one of the better labels producing new dub and roots reggae.

Guidance Recordings (although predominantly a house music label) has released some excellent dub compilations in the last two years. Hi-Fidelity Dub Sessions (Chapters one and two) are both worth picking up for a really nice blend of contemporary dub, roots and dub influenced hip-hop. Chapter two contains the amazing Metrics vocal mix of Hughie Izachaar's 'Jungle Feva', which is otherwise impossible to find.

Nice Up is a good resource for reggae on the web (and includes a useful patois dictionary).
 
 
Spatula Clarke
20:56 / 25.07.01
Shit! Just remembered an album that I definitely should have added to that list (please note, Flyboy - not just a thread bump ), and that's the Upsetters' Double Seven.

Ignore the Amazon review. It's rubbish, frankly. Yes, this sees Scratch mucking about with synthesisers, but it offers so much more than that. Kentucky Skank, dedicated to the joys of KFC, is - as the reviewer mentions - one of Perry's best compositions. Hear the chicken sizzling in the background! There's a lovely, tender version of Just Enough To Keep Me Hanging On, David Isaacs lending it the sweetest of vocals. Jungle Lion is, I swear to the gods, a skanky take on Al Green's Love And Happiness. Most impressively, though, there's Perry's cover of Soul Man, where he invents the sound that would see the Happy Mondays through their entire career. Seriously.
 
 
Fengs for the Memory
11:16 / 27.07.01
Misty in Roots-Live at the counter eurovision
NICE
 
 
No star here laces
11:48 / 27.07.01
Culture!
Coca T!
Junior Delgado!
Sizzla!
Dillinger!

These are some of the things reggae means to me...

Personally, I love reggae, and will go to reggae clubs fairly frequently and enjoy listening to my friends' reggae records, but buy hardly any of it myself. It's purely from a feeling that I don't know enough about the 'scene' and the music and that I simply don't have enough money to add reggae to the stuff that I already keep up with. I really 'like' reggae, but it doesn't make me jump up and down with joy the way that a new hip-hop tune will...
 
 
Margin Walker
12:10 / 27.07.01
Reggae is one of those things that a lot of people don't get because all they've been exposed to are the chart hits of Bob Marley and UB40.

Well, that & context. Having almost no contact with reggae, I thought it was boring hippie stuff. Nothin' but peace, love, happiness & rainbows & shit. It wasn't until I listened to The Clash & watched "The Harder They Come" that I found out it was fierce. Stories of Sound System wars, people getting gunned down in the street like King Tubby, being busted on trumped-up suss charges, being denied record royalties--you name it.
 
 
grant
12:21 / 27.07.01
Someone:
define the differences between
ska
reggae
ragga
dancehall
dub
mento
raucous

I think I've got a handle on it, but I'm not altogether sure.
 
 
Johnny Mother
12:50 / 27.07.01
Ragga is a mixture of Rap and Reggae (Apache Indian)
Ska is like punk Reggae (The Specials)


fuck, I dont know any more.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
12:59 / 27.07.01
The way I've always thought of it is;

Reggae's kind of rootsy, devotional.

Dancehall's like a pop take on that.

Ragga has a harder edge, with the sung vocals replaced by toasting.

Ska - the word's a shortened form of 'skank'. How to describe...sort of lolloping (is there such a word?), loose, free groove stuff. Like Johnny says, a bit punky.

Dub is hard, deeeep bass. Plenty of odd spot effects, all space-age and other. For example, Dub Encounter Chapter 3 starts off with Far-I chanting, his vocals distorted and treated over the top of a bass line and nothing else, moves on through what appears to be a room full of goblins giggling, pretty, tinkling pieces and reversed recordings, before ending with the Prince's unmistakable big-man voice echo-treated and declaring "NUCLEAR WEAPON IS A DISEASE - ATOMIC BOOM IS THE SEQUEL."

Tracks in other styles often have accompanying dub remixes, the lyrics hidden deep within the mix, the rhythm and bass brought to the fore.

Someone else'll probably be able to give you far better descriptions of some of those. Like I say, dub's my passion here.
 
 
No star here laces
13:19 / 27.07.01
Y'all are giving a very american impression of ska, which is slightly off the mark.

Ska and rocksteady were actually the original jamaican music styles in the early 60s and were like reggae but faster, with a steady four four beat and usually a lot of horns. Kind of like a jamaican version of swing. Key artists would be people like the Skatalites, the Ethiopians, Desmond Dekker and Prince Buster. As the 60s progressed into the 70s the dominant style slowed down and became what we know as reggae, with the characteristic off-beat stabs et al.

As the late 70s rolled around the traditional british skinhead fascination with ska mutated into punk-y bands like the clash and the specials taking that ska influence to a greater or lesser degree and adding more guitar and a rougher edge. But if you were to be purist, this stuff was never 'real' ska. However it is the only exposure to the style that most people ever get, and is the root of the incredibly plastic yank ska-punk scene...

The only thing I'd add about ragga is that what it really did was take the huge dub bassline and make it more danc-y and then add it back into the reggae mix. There's also a strong hip-hop influence in the way that ragga producers program their beats. Ragga often gets a bad press, personally I love it...
 
 
gentleman loser
18:08 / 29.07.01
Thanks for all of the recommendations!

I'll check 'em out soon if I can come up with the $$$ for a few more CDs.
 
 
Saveloy
08:58 / 30.07.01
I don't think anyone has yet mentioned the fantastic compilations which SOUL JAZZ has put out called 100% Dynamite, '200%', '300%' etc (I think they're up to 500% now). Mostly early Jamaican stuff, examples of ska, rock steady, dub etc. Many of the names mentioned above are represented, (King Tubby, Jackie Mittoo, Toots and the Maytals etc etc). More poppy, funky than yer Marley - less dull to be honest. Great intro for beginners like me. I've bought the first 3 over the course of a year and listened to very little else since.

Ooh, turns out there's a club called 100% Dynamite too, according to the SJ website:

"100% DYNAMITE is still going strong at The Blue Angel every 2 weeks. The Blue Angel, Torrens St, Islington (behind Angel Tube). 9.30pm - 2am. Admission £4."
 
 
No star here laces
07:40 / 31.07.01
That is a fantastic club. Cheap booze, good reggae, good atmosphere, opportunity to laugh at goths while queuing. Must go back there sometime.
 
 
Tuna Ghost: Pratt knot hero
07:40 / 31.07.01
quote:Originally posted by Margin Walker:
Personally, I dig the old school stuff: Toots & the Maytals, Peter Tosh, Jimmy Cliff...


Jimmy Cliff? As in "Jimmy Cliff and the Mojo Boogie Band"?
 
 
Tuna Ghost: Pratt knot hero
07:40 / 31.07.01
quote:Originally posted by E Randy Dub It:
I've got to say, the almost complete lack of interest in this thread is somewhat depressing. I guess most Undergrounder's follow the idiotic view that 'reggae is shit'.

Sad.


Hey, it's not that I think it's shit. It's that I've never had an intrest in it, nor have I met anyone with an intrest in it, nor would I have had any clue what was good or what was shit. This thread has helped.
 
 
Jamieon
13:12 / 31.07.01
Has anyone mentioned the recently released Jackie Mitto compilation?

Fucking excellent.
 
 
Margin Walker
14:54 / 31.07.01
Jimmy Cliff? As in "Jimmy Cliff and the Mojo Boogie Band"?

No, this Jimmy Cliff:
 
 
electric monk
16:13 / 20.04.06
*bump*

This thread is very helpful. Thanks all!
 
 
m
16:37 / 25.04.06
Could we change the title of this thread to something that would encourage further discussion of other reggae artists other than Marley? Should I just start a new thread? As it is now, the title makes it look like just another Marley discussion thread.
 
 
m
16:55 / 25.04.06
Oh, I see, it has been changed once already. I guess I saw 'Marley' and my eyes just glazed over. Can we have a title that doesn't mention him at all, and maybe a topic summary that keeps discussion focused on the rest of the reggae world?

On to other things: Dr.Alimantado's "Best Dressed Chicken in Town" record is blowing my mind! I tend to find DJ LPs kind of tedious a lot of the time, but man, oh man, does Alimantado keep this one exciting all the way through. I didn't think that I could like the song "Ali Baba" any more than I already do, but its version, "Tom Shot the Barber", just rocks, rocks, rocks!

Hey, does anyone have any recommendations for early dancehall records to get? I'm saving up for a copy of Yellowman's "Zungazungazeng", but I'm willing to divert my funds to something else if someone thinks they have a better suggestion.
 
 
illmatic
18:35 / 25.04.06
Dr Alimantado: Yes! I fucking love that LP! I really like Posion Flour... that's going straight on as soon as I get through this comp. I'm listening to.

Right, eighties dancehall you say? Would Sir like it late or early? With the real early stuff, I can't really help you out with specifics as I don't know stuff like Yellowman and Eek-a-mouse that well, I was jus' a pickney.... however, I can recommend with both barrels my favourite LP from that period is Lone Ranger's M-16. It's just wicked. It has the immortal title track and has incredible hand drawn felt tip pen cover artwork. One of my favourite reggae LPs.

Also, a mate of mine, sometime Barbeloid 2Stepfan has just put up a wicked "Fast Chat" mix on his site of early eighties UK dancehall chat - Tipper Irie, Asher Senator, UK chart crossover guvnor Smiley Culture, stuff like that. I can't link direct to it 'cos of bandwidth issues- email him for a link or copy. It's a great mix, blinding music, and it highlights a forgotten period in UK Black music, before Hip Hop, house and rare groove - the UK dancehall scene. (I say "forgotten", I actually mean never entered the popular consciousness/the media outside the black community bar the aforementioned "Cockney Translator").

For Dancehall of a slighly later vintage, you want Maximum Pressure, Pressure Sounds subsidary. They've put out some fantastic mid-late eighties comps. I've got the King Jammys one and his rhythms just kill it. So ... raw, basic , simple, but so .... I lack the words. Geddit.

(/showing off)
I brought a few of the 7"s that are on that comp. when I was in Jamica in the late eighties when they were hot off the press. Still sound great now, though my originals have passed on to a deserving home.

(/ends showing off)

BTW, there are some other Barbelith reggae threads. Check here for a start.
 
 
illmatic
18:46 / 25.04.06
Here's an article about M-16. I fronted on Alimantado and put this on instead. God, it's good. My brain is just loosely vibrating round my skull in the way that only eighties dancehall can induce.
 
 
Proinsias
18:50 / 25.04.06
Don Dada by Super Cat is a belter of a Dancefloor album. It's getting on a bit now - '92 release date. I've got an old tape copy from 10/12 yrs ago that's not sounding too hot anymore. I did manage to get Ghetto Red Hot, Don Dada & Dem No Worry We from a friend on mp3. This was the first time I'd heard the tracks on something other than a shit personal stereo for years. By god Super Cat is the dancehall daddy, the kind of repetative bass heavy nonsense that sticks in your brain for days and makes you think you can sing/rap/shout Jamaican style.

There are previews for the tunes an amazon if you doubt my impeccable taste
 
 
illmatic
20:41 / 25.04.06
its just that names.... Super Cat? Eek A Mouse? Admiral Tibet? Fan-fucking-tastic.

Keeping with the feline theme, Tiger's first album is a killer as well. Also previews of some tracks on the Maximum Pressure site.
 
 
m
21:01 / 25.04.06
Is it Lone Ranger or Clint Eastwood that shows up on a lot of those early Yellowman records? The guy that I'm thinking about makes some crazy noises and likes to interject "eight" into songs pretty frequently. Kind of like Eek-a-mouse, but not as consistently goofy and weird sounding.
 
 
astrojax69
04:10 / 26.04.06
went to the byron bay blues and roots at easter and saw not only the original skatalites [!! well, three or four are original, old and still skanking!] and damien 'junior gong' marley, bob's son. gee, he's a marley!

skatalites were the first act i saw at three days of festival and still one of the highlights. o boy, skanking to phoenix city and all that again, o it sends me back to me yoof skanking round sydney in the then ska-skin, rude boy scene. junior was pretty wild, did sort of rap-toasting covers of some of dad's stuff in a very modern but reggae faithful way. fantastic to see live!

as for reggae artistes, i will always love u-roy, the true natty rebel. what a dude! let there be love!

and linton kwesi johnson (mentioned up-thread), esp his first disc 'dread beat and blood' - a fine modern poet in any tradition, and dead heavy music, dub-tastic.

as far as its history goes, ska started from the traditional folk music of the carribean (forgot its name) mixed with the then new sounds of the early rock n roll pumped out on radios in florida and received in jamaica - several studios (studio one being perhaps best known) cut many artists cheaply and there was much great stuff; then bluebeat slowed the rhythm down a little and gave it a little more swing; and then in the late 60s marley and others slowed it down way more and hit up the back beat to give us the reggae style most lay people asociate with reggae. dub is a kind pared down version of the full songs with haunting scarce sounds accentuating the reggae beat... and dancehall stuff came from the toasting (rapping over the top of 'version' or instumental b-sides to famous reggae tunes)... well, a potted history, but something like that.

bob marley was doing this stuff from the outset of bluebeat, even ska, and was an innovator of reggae. he may have been commercialised, but he is real.

jah rasta-far-i!

i also have a thing for black uhuru, yellowman and jimmy cliff.
 
  

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