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Morrisey: Why The Big Fuss?!?

 
 
Margin Walker
00:48 / 21.07.01
I'm willing to bet that most of y'all are/were big on Morrisey &/or The Smiths. Call it bear baiting if you must, but I absolutly can't understand the appeal of his whiny, mopey ass music (BTW, I would've picked on Robert Smith/The Cure, but Morrisey seems to be a much bigger sacred cow on this board--besides anybody that can drink as much as me is A-OK [even if he does wear mascara & lipstick]).

So why the big fuss? Is it because he's British? The big-eyed Keene painting "Heaven knows I'm miserable now" aloofness? The meticuluos pompadour? In Heaven's name, WHAT?!?!?

<runs behind the bar while all of the Brits chuck pint glasses overhead>
 
 
The Return Of Rothkoid
01:39 / 21.07.01
You're really Hank Rollins, aren't you, MW?

Strangely, I was once like you, too. Before I lived in the UK, I couldn't get Morrissey. But since I moved here, it all makes perfect sense. Can't say why, but it does. Vauxhall and I is pretty close to perfection. The Smiths were better in terms of singles, but something about his solo stuff just snags me. Clever, clever bastard.

And one of the oddest things I've ever experienced was when I saw the bloke play live in '99 - he was fantastic, coincidentally - before the band came on, these big, burly rugby types insisted on singing "Morrissey, Morrissey, MorrisEEY" to the tune of "Here we go" - a football chant. Over. And. Over. It was very strange. Almost entirely male stage invasions that night, too...

I think it's the wordplay, honestly, and the fact that he's so willing to be posterboy for All That Is Fey And UnRock that makes Moz the star. Jarvis Cocker taps the same vein, I think, but with smaller hair and a little more elegance.

But just a little.


Oh, wait. Forgot.
[chucks pint glass]

[ 21-07-2001: Message edited by: Rothkoid ]
 
 
Ronald Thomas Clontle
01:58 / 21.07.01
Nah, if he was Hank Rollins, he'd probably be off on a vitriolic rant about U2 instead.

For the longest time I didn't see the appeal of the Smiths, but I've since found that there's a fair few Smiths tunes that are just nice catchy songs. I can't quite grasp why some people feel so intensely about them, but I can guess that they are appealing because Morissey/The Smiths create a fantasy world for the self obsessed in their songs that isn't that difficult to approximate in reality. Also, Morissey's gay-but-just-won't-say-it shtick certainly appeals to lots of closet-case types...I've known a few myself, it's weird...
 
 
The Return Of Rothkoid
07:56 / 21.07.01
Just re: Hank - there's a program in Australia called Rage that's a late-night video program. No presenters, just videos. It's great - on Saturdays (I think) they either do theme nights, or get bands that are touring to choose the playlist, and record a couple of little in-between-song introductions to a couple of their choices. The legendary one is Hank Rollins: he chose a Morrissey song and talked about how he'd like to tie him to a chair and set him on fire, and how he was everything that's wrong with music - "why don't you get a haircut, get a girlfriend, get to a gym and stop whining?" kind of deal.

But then, now Henry's reached the "I bought a futon and am a couch snob" stage, maybe he's mellowed a bit. Strange, strange man.
 
 
Ganesh
11:01 / 21.07.01
Ah, Stephen Morrissey, deeply-flawed genius...

What's the big deal? Well, besides the obvious NME-style 'achingly beautiful cathedrals of sound' etc., etc. he produced along with Johnny Marr, there's the very specific appeal of Morrissey's lyrics. They were unconventially intelligent for the time, incredibly black-humoured, bitingly witty and extremely passionate - and they distilled a strong sense of what it's like to feel uncomfortable in one's environment, in one's own skin. This obviously struck a pretty deep chord with those of us who, for whatever reason, found adolescence and young adulthood difficult or threatening. There was also the strong appeal of being part of a sort of outsider gang, with its own arcane language and cultural references (all defiantly but self-deprecatingly 'British').

The 'gay thing' has been extensively probed and analysed; it was extremely evident in Morrissey's Smiths lyrics (in a shifty, implicit manner which both appealled and tantalised) and became more pronounced in his subsequent solo work. 'Gay' is the wrong word: Morrissey's stuff is more homoerotic, at times merely homosocial. He's attracted to archetypically straight men, straight vaguely 'dangerous' men - teds, skinheads, bikers, 'ordinary boys' - and that, in some ways, is the whole tragedy of Morrissey. He appears attracted to men who project a violent (often stereotypically 'working class') glamour and simultaneously wants to be physically intimate with them but also to 'belong'. One suspects also that if any of his skinhead 'companions' actually did respond to him sexually, they'd become less desirable in his eyes. Morrissey himself, I think, projects an image which appeals, particularly, to men who are attracted to the company of men (and, especially, gangs of men) but wouldn't even begin to articulate this as 'gay'.

I've seen Morrissey live on three occasions. Each time, I counted around forty separate stage invasions (not including the inevitable 'scrum' at the end); of these, perhaps two or three each time were women. The atmosphere on each occasion was heady with testosterone, the 'butch', rather threatening appearance of many of his fans and the football-type chants made the whole experience surreal - but extremely sexy.

Why doesn't he 'come out'? Because to do so would destroy some fragile mystique ('mystique' isn't the right word, but it's the nearest I can come up with) in his music and his public persona. Also, as a(n almost certainly) gay man who's attracted to straight men, he taps into the whole Men Who Have Sex With Men (but don't identify as homosexual and would punch you for asking) thing - 'coming out' would alienate a large part of his fanbase and, perhaps more importantly to Morrissey, jeopardise his chances of ever getting off with another skinhead pipe-fitter...

That's some of it, I guess, Margin. As a phenomenon, it's not exclusively male, homoerotic or British, but those are the elements which pulled (and still pull) most strongly at me, personally.

(And I think you'll find Robert Smith's British too.)
 
 
Fengs for the Memory
13:41 / 26.07.01
Not so much a Morrisey fan - more the Smiths as a band. I think for me and others of my generation they remind us of the time and what complete shite there was around at then. One or 2 things spring to mind - King, pointy headed fuckwits, and god forbid Balaam and the fucking Angel (lance Percival lead guitar). These are just a random choice there are many more. Anyway there were only 3 great bands of the 80s.
Rollins is a pussy - psuedo hard man, with a flat face to match his imagination.
 
 
The Return Of Rothkoid
14:00 / 26.07.01
quote:Originally posted by Ray Feng:
Rollins is a pussy - psuedo hard man, with a flat face to match his imagination.

With fucking weird musculature. All upper-body, and teensy stick legs. I was in a record shop once, and he came up and looked through the section I was looking through. I was taller - which is no mean feat. He was surprisingly tiny.

Although, I have to say that I do, on occasion, enjoy his spoken word. It's better than a lot of the Rollins Band's stuff, and has improved now that he's mellowed out a bit. It's a good motivational experience, if nothing else.
 
 
wembley can change in 28 days
17:48 / 26.07.01
I have a nagging suspicion that all it takes is to get hooked on one good Morrissey track and that's it, you've had it. I saw him when I was in grade 10, still coming off the Led Zeppelin high through the Wonderstuff and into Tori Amos, and I accidentally won tickets to a Morrissey show in Toronto. I'd never seen so many Morrisseys in my life, wielding gorgeous flowers, all wearing cherry red docs. It was like a secret cult I'd never heard of before in my sleepy WASP hometown, and I dug it.

I'm with Rothko - you don't know why it works, it just does. Not explainable. And they all bloody well sound the same, and I don't give a flying squirrel. I can always take more of it. It's when you start relating to him (as opposed to laughing at the lyrics) that you know you're turning into a miserable bastard.


[edit: chucks 2-4 of molson canadian]

[ 26-07-2001: Message edited by: wembley ]
 
 
Our Lady of The Two Towers
10:29 / 27.07.01
It's his repititious and boring lyrics for me, though I admit I only really know his later work, not the Smiths stuff so much.
Anyone want to justify 'Dagenham Dave' which, if memory serves, consists almost or entirely of the repeated line 'Dagenham Dave'.
 
 
The Return Of Rothkoid
10:41 / 27.07.01
quote:Originally posted by The Ungodly Lozt and Found Office:
Anyone want to justify 'Dagenham Dave' which, if memory serves, consists almost or entirely of the repeated line 'Dagenham Dave'.

Hmm. Nup. I think even the most rabid fans gave Southpaw Grammar the arse. Not a good showing. However, there are more lyrics to the song than just that - though not by much.

Apparently, it's meant to be a portrait of a lucky Ford worker. Apparently.
 
 
Cat Chant
04:39 / 29.07.01
Morrissey... <sigh>

There's only a couple of songs that I find depressing: mostly I find his stuff (particularly the Smiths stuff) energizing and uplifting, though admittedly I feel the same way about Leonard Cohen, so what do I know. I think it's the way he doesn't exactly wallow in misery, there's always an ironic slightly camp edge to it, and lots of fuckoff anger as well ("it was the seaside town they forgot to burn down, come, come, nuclear bomb"). And some sentimentality ("if not love then it's the Bomb that will bring us together") - but always expressed in this skewed way, so you can have a *secret* wallow without having to admit that you listen to country&western or whatever. Emotional precision is another one: not just generic "I love you, you love me" lyrics cut 'n' pasted from the Love Song/Misery Anthem resource page, but a sharp take on whatever he's/you're feeling.

Also I like it when miserable songs come on at clubs and EVERYONE takes to the dancefloor and sings along ("I'm a creep! I'm a weirdo! I don't belong here!" - I know that's not Morrissey, but it always reminds me of that 'Yes! We are all individuals!' bit in Life of Brian).

Also the attraction of really odd subjects for songs: "Some Girls are Bigger Than Others".

(And Ganesh, really interesting stuff on the homoeroticism... does that fit in with the Morrissey/Marr relationship?)
 
 
Graham the Happy Scum
11:49 / 30.07.01
Well, the only Smiths album I have is "Rank" which I bought yonks ago. I recently pulled it out and give it a listen, wasn't bad, actually.

As for his solo stuff, most of it's passed me by, but I reckon "The More You Ignore Me" is a great song...
 
 
Ganesh
19:19 / 31.07.01
Heh. 'The More You Ignore Me...' is one of our 'courting songs'. "I have now become a central part of your mind's landscape, whether you care or do not..."

Deva: I think Morrissey's always been attracted to 'rough' images of working-class heterosexual masculinity - skinheads, teds, boxers, 'boy racers' - but he's always been ambivalent about whether or not he actually wants to be an 'ordinary boy'. I didn't get the impression he was attracted to Johnny Marr sexually; if anything, they seemed like an old married couple, accepting (up to a point) of each others' quirks and peccadillos. I think Marr (and, to a lesser extent, the other two) fulfilled Morrissey's need to be part of a gang, to feel allied with someone against the world at large. Despite the typically Morrisseyesque vitriol shortly after the 'severed alliance', he penned plenty of coded 'please come back, Johnny' songs. I think he found his 'gang' with the homoerotically pretty musicians he hung around with in his solo career, but they never quite equalled Marr...

<sigh>

I'm listening to 'There's a Place in Hell for Me And My Friends' as I write this.
 
 
Ganesh
22:45 / 10.09.01
Prompted by the 'Your Tune' thread up in The Conversation, I'm trying to select a single Smiths/Morrissey choon as my theme music.

It's a tricky task. Suggestions?
 
 
autopilot disengaged
23:39 / 10.09.01
well: 'i know it's over' is maybe the greatest (non)love song...ever - though maybe a li'l downbeat for yr triumphant entrance onto a major talk show.

hows about 'i know it's gonna happen someday'? that'd work.

or, if you wanted to really wrongfoot yr host and audience, the idea of strolling down the neon steps to 'heaven knows i'm miserable now' seems too glamrously world-weary to resist. yup: that's the one. with a bunch of gladioli hanging limply from yr trunk. (!)
 
 
agapanthus
06:34 / 11.09.01
quote:Ray Feng wrote: Not so much a Morrisey fan - more the Smiths as a band. I think for me and others of my generation they remind us of the time and what complete shite there was around at then.

I'm with you Fengster on this one. In 1985 a 2nd cousin urged me to check out 'this Charming man' - "I would go out tonite/ but I haven't got a stitch to wear' - so teenage angsty, so fucking ironically true, so funny.

"Hatful of Hollow" was my intro to a band that didn't shoot their film clips in South American settings (Duran Duran) twitching like idiots with big hair and shoulder pads. The Smiths were a shot across the bows of slick, over produced New Romantic schlock - Wham!They had a rockin' engine room who could move from a sly ballad ("Stretch out and wait") to rocking fury ("London") , a musician/ songwriter /guitarist of sonic/structural brilliance - and then there was that funny, sad fuck: Morrisey - "[prince] Charles do you ever crave/ to appear in the front of the daily mail/ dressed in your mother's bridal veil" -
"The Queen is dead"

"Sweetness I was only joking when I said/ by rights you should be bludgeoned in your bed / And now i know how Joan of Arc felt . . ./As the flames rose to her Roman nose and her walkman started to melt."
"Bigmouth strikes again."


It was strange and different at the time. Yeah sure ,Morrisey's stuck in teenage awkardness - but cast into the shit of the mid-8os, where slick, under and over intellectualised (from Whitney Houston to Scritti Politti), funk was mostly what remained from the ashes of the post-punk new wave, this awkardness rang my bell.

As for variety show guest entrance music Ganesh:
"Big mouth strikes again"?

[ 11-09-2001: Message edited by: agarchy ]

[ 11-09-2001: Message edited by: agarchy ]
 
 
RiffRaff
10:54 / 11.09.01
Liam Lynch, the creator of "Sifl & Olly" (the Mtv sock-puppets show) has a CD out called Fake Songs which contains a great Morrissey impression. (Also an amazing Bjork sound-alike, but that's another story)

"Miserable Life"

I'm not pretty, or good to the eye
Never left my room 'till twenty-five
If I were happy, would you punish me?
Tie me up and call it therapy?

Miserable life, miserable life
Miserable life, miserable life
Miserable life, miserable life
Miserable life

Let me be your perfect scratiching post
Your father, son, and your holy ghost
Take my devotion, turn your back on me
Don't push me down and call me a wussy

Miserable life, miserable life
Miserable life, miserable life
Miserable life, miserable life
Miserable life

Miserable life
Devotion!
Miserable life
Emotion!
Miserable life
Depression!
Miserable life
Obsession!
Miserable life

You can't see me, 'cause I'm wearing black.
 
 
Margin Walker
04:19 / 12.06.02
*bump* Here's some news for Ganesh, et al....

From nme.com: "MOZ FEST!"

Currently label-less ex-SMITHS frontman MORRISSEY is to head out on the road for his first live dates in almost two years.

The indie godfather will play 15 shows, including two in Japan, with three of the US gigs seeing him support Mexican rock act Jaguares. The shows will take him from New Mexico to Alaska.

Billboard reports that Jaguares manager Marusa Reyes said that Morrissey accepted the offer to open the September shows after a single phone conversation. "Everything was very simple and for the band, it represents that they have been accepted," he said.

While Morrissey is still said to be in negotiations with Sanctuary about inking a new deal, as previously reported on NME.COM, a second box set of his singles is to be released in September in the UK.

Last year, 'Singles Box - Volume 1' documented the release of his solo singles between 1988-91.

Now, 'Volume 2', released on September 17, documents Morrissey's singles from 1991-95. The nine-CD package includes the singles 'My Love Life', 'We Hate It When Our Friends Become Successful', 'You're The One For Me Fatty', 'Certain People I Know' and 'The More You Ignore Me, The Closer I Get', amongst others.

In addition, all the singles feature the original B-sides.

Morrissey's tour dates in full run:

Salt Lake City, Fairpark (August 1)
Colorado Springs, Colo. Music Hall (3)
Albuquerque, N.M. Sunshine Theater (4)
El Paso, Texas, venue TBA (6)
Tucson, Ariz. Rialto (7)
Phoenix, Celebrity Theatre (8)
Yuma, Ariz. Convention Hall (10)
Osaka, Japan, Summer Sonic Festival (17)
Tokyo, Summer Sonic Festival (18)
Anchorage, Ala. Egan Center (20)
Portland, Ore. Crystal Ballroom (23)
Eugene, Ore. McDonald Theatre (24)
San Diego, Open Air Theatre with Jaguares: (September 12)
Berkeley, Calif. Greek Theatre with Jaguares (13)
Anaheim, Calif. Arrowhead Pond with Jaguares (14)
 
 
that
07:18 / 12.06.02
First time I've noticed this thread. And I am really really really glad you did not go throwing insults about The Cure, Margin Walker. Or I might've had to care.
 
 
Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!
08:08 / 12.06.02
Wow, first time I've seen this topic too.

At the moment I really do love all things Smiths. Morrissey's voice always used to bug me, but I think I sneakily always liked it and just went along with my friends that he sounded silly. Now I fail to understand people who can't see the appeal of the Smiths. I just love those whimsical ways, and the music really really is just lovely sing-a-long Summer day fare. Or any other time really. Depends which song. I can't really explain it honestly, but it just feels right, any time, any place.

Regarding the whole gay thing... it's only the girls I know who insist he isn't gay. "No! He's not! You're just jealous!" But his sexuality has always seemed a little... vague (the one that loves me, they, we.. etc) and some seemingly not all too subtle references. But personally, I don't care, I just like the music.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
11:26 / 12.06.02
Ummmmmmmmmmm - "Miserable Life" is a Depeche Mode parody, not a Morrissey/Smiths parody...
 
  
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