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Underground > Film, TV & Theatre >

gender in science fiction

00:22 / 23.03.02

i'm working on a group project in one of my film theory classes concerning the role gender plays in sci-fi, especially sci-fi films. one possible direction i am thinking about taking my part of this is to analyze female roles in american, european and asian sci-fi films. amazon has given me a pretty good lead so far, but i was wondering if anybody here could throw in any suggestions for sources, etc? i'm looking for any type of criticism or theory that deals with this type of thing, or maybe some films that i may not of heard of that illustrate their culture's take on the feminine role (btw i am pretty well versed in this subject, no need to suggest metropolis or alien...). looking especially for replies from uk or asian 'lithers...

19:16 / 23.03.02

Watch Tarkovsky's "Solaris".

It's about a man. A sentient ocean conjurs up his dead wife. His wife killed herself because she couldn't be with him. Now she can.

Oh, it's marvellous. It's about so many things, and that trite paragraph only explains why _you_ personally need to see it. It's a sf masterpiece, and the take on human relationships (not so specifically gender) is interesting.

You also need to read The Left Hand of Darkness (imho, though Deva will no doubt fly off at me again) - human male lands on planet where there is effectively no gender. Makes politics most interesting.

19:25 / 23.03.02

the obvious choice for me is Donnald camel directed 'Demonseed' Julie Christie is held captive and raped by a sentient house and forced to give birth to the demon ofspring of the title...

09:39 / 24.03.02

there's an incredible book called MEN, WOMEN, AND CHAINSAWS which is a feminist reading of horror films. totally amazing book and it will be endlessly valuable to your project. can't remember the name of the author.

obviously, donna haraway is relevant too, and she has some amazing things to say about gender and sci-fi, but be ready for the most willfully obscure writing since Lacan.

09:39 / 24.03.02

Paleface:right on with solaris. i saw it about a year ago, and it was definetly one of my best movie watchin experiences.

everybody else:thank you so much. i shall take every recommendation into consideration. keep 'em comin' people!

10:01 / 24.03.02

You should check out a book called Dimensions in Science Fiction by Wiliam Sims Bainbridge. It has a chapter 'Women in Science Fiction'.
One of the interesting points is the relationship between gender in traditional hard science subjects at university and the corresponding interest in science fiction.
I found this quote from Bjo Trimble interesting:
quote:back in ancient fannish times, before Star Trek, the ratio of women to men in active science-fiction fandom was about 1 for every 22 males; by the time Star Trek appeared on your TV set, the fannish ratio was something like 1 female for every 12 or 14 males. Soon after Star Trek caught on the ratio was about 1 to 5! What caused this?...

[ 25-03-2002: Message edited by: Buk ]

14:44 / 25.03.02

Shit - I know I've read something on the Alien movies and shifting zones of otherness (the phallic Big Mother alien vs. the robotized, macho Sigourney Weaver in "Aliens"), but I can't remember who by. I *think* the same book had chapters on Judy Garland and Rambo (the pornography of action heroes & objectification of male bodies).
Gaa!
I read it in a class in 1992, so it would have been published just before then.

It might be possible to make some hay with "Liquid Sky" - personally, I think that movie tries too hard to fuck with gender lines (has the only scene where a female character gives head to a male character - both played by the same actress), but there might be milage there.

Oh, and on the pop-culture tip, there was a recent "Enterprise" episode where the engineer (a man) gets impregnated by an alien - someone he didn't even realize he was having sex with.

Gender in Star Trek is a book of its own, actually - from Kirk swapping bodies with a "man-hating" female scientist (Shatner acts like a madwoman, the actress neatly takes on all of Shatner's swaggering mannerisms) to the genderswapping symbiotic Trill (is that right) in The Next Generation and DS9.

I'm having trouble thinking of Asian sci-fi right now, and the only European entries would be either fantasies or else something like "Alphaville" or "La Jetee," neither of which are terribly gender-concerned, are they? (It's been a while since I saw alphaville....) (Although Alien had a British director, I guess it’s American and not European, eh?)

[ 25-03-2002: Message edited by: grant ]

15:53 / 25.03.02

Oh, and there might be stuff to say about Alan Rudolph's "Trouble In Mind."
It's basically a noir picture set in a near-future Seattle. Divine plays a very campy (male) crime boss (and does so very well).
Might make an interesting comparison with the noir current in "Blade Runner."
I'm thinking now, and in both it appears that the "femme fatale" (staple of straight-up noir) is absent or replaced by some other figure.

12:17 / 29.03.02

Thanks to everybody who posted suggestions. You have all been a huge help in what can be a rather expansive and time-consuming project.

10:05 / 30.03.02

Oh and I came across this the other day. Prospectus for a course called Gender, Technology and Representation: Women, Machines and Cyborgs. The reading list could be useful.

19:56 / 31.03.02

I know you specifically said not to mention 'Alien', but I just thought I should mention that when I was working on my doctoral dissertation (never completed) I read something really interesting about identification and gender roles / sexuality - which was that 'Alien' was for a while the favourite film in a poll of Lesbians, but that 'Aliens' was considered very poorly... My conjecture at the time was that Alien allowed a lot of space for divergent sexual readings - Ripley was powerful and expressed absolutely no interest in anyone else about the ship - while in Aliens they assemble her a prefab nuclear family of Mother, Father, Child and cat - and almost set this 'normal' relationship in opposition to the disturbing sexuality of the Aliens themselves... I don't know if that's even vaguely interesting for you though... It wasn't a particularly stunning revelation...

22:12 / 31.03.02

no, but it is interesting as hell. i may actually keep that little tidbit on the side. you guys just keep coming up with good stuff. yer making this very easy for me. i give you all an "A"

18:20 / 04.04.02

Roger Zelazny's "Lord of Light" is interesting in a few moments, for touching on issues of gender-switching.

I'd say William Gibson has had the most profound effect on representation of female characters, especially heroines, in both the written and filmic genres of sci-fi, and branching into action. I'd look at "Johnny Mnemonic" the story, not the movie - or cross-compare the two - Neuromancer, and Idoru...I forget the name of the female character with the blades in her fingers, but she's the template upon which a lot of "tough" female heroines - and villains - are based.

In film, "Pitch Black" might be worth a look. It's a very simple film, but the particular "redemptive" dynamic set up between the hardened criminal and the young girl (masquerading as a boy, by the way) could be mined...especially is set up in comparison to Gibson's "innocent" female character in Count Zero and Mona Lisa Overdrive. This image of "young woman as redeemer/symbol of value" turns up a great deal in scifi, even bridging into the jaded realm of cyberpunk.... Nell, from The Diamond Age, rests uncertainly as some sort of
bridge, point of union, between the "tough chick" and "innocent" archetypes.

Things get rougher in Asia, because the boundaries of sci-fi and fantasy blur fast...mostly I know anime. It might be amusing, at very least, to look at more kid-oriented programming, such as the cartoon Voltron (one of the pilots of the ships that make up Voltron is female) or the live-action Power Rangers (female villain, one female hero character). Ghost in the Shell is really your best bet; Appleseed something similar. The centrality of the two young women in Gundam Wing as symbols of duality of violence and nonviolence (although neither actually fights in any of the big battles that makes up most of the show) is interesting, as is the truly freak gender dynamics of the Tenchi Muyo series.

Is post-apocalyptic considered sci-fi? Because if it is, you could have a great time comparing, let's say, "Fist of the North Star," with the Mad Max Trilogy, with Jeunet-Caro's "Delicatessen."

For that matter, "City of the Lost Children," fits the mold well, too.

20:43 / 04.04.02

Don't forget Neon Genesis Evangelion [SPOILERS AHEAD] - three children, two female one male... the male is clinically depressed and can't cope, one of the girls is more passive than you could imagine (and there's a reason for that) and the other is ultra-active, up-front, but inside all is built on loose foundations.

And of course, the fact that none of the children have mothers for various reasons. Couple the two adult females - Ritsuko and Misato - who exhibit entirely different responses (Misato is immature, but pulls together in a crisis; Ritsuko is determined but almost feministic). Not to mention the computer, the Magi: designed by Ritsuko's mother, it's split into three segements. In one episode, everything comes down to it repelling a virus. It's almost entirely taken over, and then one cell in one of the three brains repels the lot. Why? Well, Ritsuko's mother split her own personality into the three computers: her as a scientist, her as a mother, and her as a woman. It's the "woman" that saves the day in the end... Ritsuko's understanding of the process of being a woman is crucial in comparison; she's not the mothering kind, gender doesn't affect her work as a scientist... and perhaps it should. Or not. You see?

And that's before you consider [BIGGEST SPOILER YET] that the Evas themselves might be female; Eva-01 could well contain the spirit of Shinji's mother, for instance.

Just thought I'd add that from an anime perspective.

22:44 / 04.04.02

..as Tom was mentioning before, there was an interesting dynamic in 'Aliens' with feminine/ mothering roles. It's particularly evident in the uncut version where you come to know that Ripley comes out of hypersleep while her own child has (I believe) passed on. Then of course, reprising the seedling role is Newt where the mothering / protective element comes in as well as the human construct vs. the alien one in the finale...

Starship Troopers seems to blur lines quite a bit...thinking of the co-ed shower scene in boot camp for one...

13:44 / 05.04.02

I wonder if Jeunet's take on the Alien movies might make a nice contrast with Delicatessen and City of Lost Children.

Cloning is important. Mothering fathers (who fall short). Mysteries under water. Things living in jars.

15:33 / 05.04.02

How about the Abyss? Macho male (Michael Biehn), sensitive female (Mastrantonio) and the undecided, middle way (Ed Harris) responses to alien life. Just thought it might be an idea...

15:48 / 05.04.02

it bugs me to bring in books when discussing sf movies and television...

anyhow an anime series called Serial Experiments Lain does not deal with gender issues directly but undercuts gender stereotypes in a subtle, good way.

the last two seasons of Doctor Who definitely exploited the relationship between the female Ace and the male Doctor in a conscious way. you can find either of these easily on videos.

pointless and uncalled for

16:15 / 05.04.02

Hardware. Places the female lead in reasonable balance with the male lead and other male characters. She's strong but not overly so.

17:17 / 05.04.02

i cant resist adding the sex scene/s between half-alien ripley in Alien Resurrection and the android Coal [first Coal stabbing Ripley's hand and then Ripley fingering Coal's insides...] as well as the erotic orgy of ripley's return to the mother in that, my favourite, of the alien films...

16:10 / 06.04.02

me again. yes... uh, I think when doing such a broad topic (and one done before) best to define it more. as in compartmentalize (television versus movies, sub-genre as in body horror versus space opera, or time period or whatever). the Alien films make IMHO an ideal "test subject" in that they cover a lot of real world change from 1979 to 2000 (or whenever the last one came out). somebody will write a book on them sooner or later.

17:10 / 06.04.02

i hear ya, rja, and agree. i'm looking mainly to stick with movies (a few old, a few new, to show the changes each culture's perspective on gender has gone through), if only because television and literature opens up quite the can of worms. it's odd, because the deeper i get into this the more i want to expand on it, and as it stands i'm going to have to omit a great deal of what i'm seeing (and what feedback i'm getting), simply to define the contrasting factors of, say, american v. asian sci-fi films. it's a shame that i won't be able to share a lot of this with the class, but their loss i guess... and i may have found a solution to the "all asian sci-fi is anime" problem (which is only a problem because i'm not as familiar with anime as i should be). there are a few asian sci-fi flicks coming to philly this month as part of the world cinema festival. check it out if you're in the area.

10:05 / 07.04.02

The problem with anime, is that whilst anime is definitely "anime", it's not really different to live-action stuff; not in the way that western "cartoons" differ from western movies. I know NGE is a tv series, and it's 26 23 minute episodes rather than say, an hour and a half of movie, but the fact is, it's moving pictures, it's pretty damn relevant to a discussion of gender at points (more so IMHO than SE: Lain), and we shouldn't dismiss it because of the style. Anime has its own constraints and quirks, but I'd class it as as valid as live-action. So yeah, not all Asian sf is Anime, obviously. But Anime's an easy way to do sf, as you can approach really _big_ concepts. Without having to spend tons on sets and stuff; just spend the money on animation and voices. The end of NGE (in fact, End of Evangelion, the final movie) is about as far removed from the beginning as you can get; it's kind-of about transhumanism and the evolution of mankind. And not big stompy pseudo-robots at all.

Thread rot over.

14:59 / 08.04.02

I'm really racking my brain to come up with Asian sci-fi that's not anime and not the mighty Godzilla.

I will say there are some explicitly fantastic (as in fantasy) Chinese kung fu films, and gender switching is a really consistent trope in those. (Think of the girl disguised as a thief/soldier in "Crouching Tiger," and the politics of the woman who couldn't/wouldn't learn the true Wu Dan style, the sexless affair of Chow Yun Fat and Michelle Yeoh.) That shit seems to happen a lot (I'm thinking of Wing Chun).
Unfortunately, I don't know of any of those films that are explicitly scientific.

Tetsuo the Iron Man? Twilight of the Cockroaches? (I haven't seen the first, and the second is mostly anime, and mainly interesting from a gender perspective because cockroaches can lay eggs fertilized by several fathers at one time.)
All Japanese. Hmm.

This book looks useful - Japanese Cinema Encyclopedia: Horror Fantasy and SciFi Films.

In fact, this whole book list might be a big help - covers Japan and Italy extensively, as well as a few catch-all sources. With links.

Hmm.

22:30 / 10.04.02

Grant:i love you you glorious bastard! how i did not come across this book in my multiple amazon searches amazes me! and yes, CTHD was considered, but i classify it more in the fantay genre, and i've decided to go striaght sci-fi. one million blessed nanites to you, my friend.

Paleface: the words you speak ring true. i am actualy giving a major part in this to anime, but i felt that some live-action should be represented as well. and you're right, serial installments are just as valid as feature-length movies. to say otherwise is like saying that graphic novels ar ecool, but comics suck. i actually find serial work to be more entralling than feature length films. more character development, action and other goodness can be covered in, say 5-6 episodes than in 90 min-2.5 hours...and think, would The Sopranos be as well done if it were a feature length film. no way. and actually, in a perfect world (one where i'd actually be able to make a living in film, i would like to do serial films, not sequels, but a continuing story over X amount of films...sorry if the wording on that one is a bit sloppy.

i'm coming to the end of this research, but if anyone still wants to contribute material,or just recommend some awesome fucking movies, feel free.

so how do we want to divvie up my credits from this course?

01:27 / 11.04.02

If you can, it might be worth watching the commentary track on the Starship Troopers DVD. Paul Verhoeven and the writer talk at length about the way test audiences hated Carmen (the Denise Richards character) for not staying faithful to Johnny - apparently they got lots of comments along the lines of 'the slut should have died'. But nobody made any comparable comments about Johnny sleeping with Dizzy.

01:44 / 11.04.02

ah double standards: where would we be without you?